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Okay, welcome back everybody to another episode of the Industrial Insights

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Podcast. Today I have Dr. Doug Friedman with me, who's CEO

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of BioMADE.

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And when most people hear about real estate

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and biotech, you think of like pharmaceutical labs and medicine,

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perhaps.

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And Doug is focused on the other half of biology, perhaps,

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that a lot of people don't know that is super early

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in the supply chain.

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And so, Doug, correct me if I'm wrong, you're trained as

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a chemist, UC Berkeley.

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went to Northwestern

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and then worked in Washington, DC, working on a national roadmap

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for industrial biology.

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And then formed BioMADE in 2020 with the Department of

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Defense's backing.

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And then now

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BioMADE is interesting. It's not an association and it's not like

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a VC. You have like this cool middle ground.

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So I'm interested to learn more about that.

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That's made up of 300 member organizations.

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So Doug, thank you for joining me today.

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Thanks so much, Justin. Happy to be here and yes, you

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got the background right.

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Alright, cool. And then in plain English, I love this.

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when it comes to what you do, help people understand.

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It took me three tries to really be able to understand

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it.

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Yeah. You know,

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at the end of the day, what we're trying to do

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is secure the most early part of the domestic

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manufacturing supply chain in the US.

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so just a small problem that we're trying to solve.

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But really it comes

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down

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That's humor,

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to the fact

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Doug.

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that

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Yes, small

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yeah.

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humor is allowed on this podcast, right?

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I think you

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It

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told me

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is.

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that before

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It's encouraged.

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we got started.

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Yes.

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which is great.

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So,

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you know.

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The reality is I am trained as a chemist and I

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promise I will not turn your podcast into a chemistry seminar.

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but I will start with the fact that everything we manufacture

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is manufactured from chemicals.

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And when you say it out loud, it sounds really obvious,

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but

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It's kind of important to say out loud because it means

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that to really understand

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the supply chains for all of the products we manufacture in

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the US and around the world, you gotta get back to

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what are the earliest stage chemicals.

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That make the materials that make,

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you know,

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most of what is in your office and around you and

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in your buildings today and everything you interact with your life.

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And so what BioMADE works to do is we focus on

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making those chemicals

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using biology and biomanufacturing instead of through

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traditional chemical and chemical engineering type processes,

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which bring

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a bunch of opportunities and challenges.

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And as you pointed out, we work with a consortium of

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members.

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we're not really an association, we're not really a government agency,

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we're not really a lot of things.

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but what we are is a group that works collectively with

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more than 300 entities in 40 states around the US

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to try to get this problem solved of early manufacturing of

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chemicals.

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in the US using biology.

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Yeah, love it.

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That's awesome. It's the analogy I use with folks is when

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you look in your room, so everything in your background and

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in mine, generally with the exception perhaps of this plant, like

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went through a warehouse to get to you today.

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So it's another example of like your chemical analogy, like when

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you really like stop to think about like, Okay, where did

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all this start from? How far back do you need to

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go? You're going back further than I am, for sure.

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I love that. That's awesome.

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Yeah, and you know, I'd put dollars on the fact that

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plant also went through a warehouse.

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Yeah. Yes. Okay.

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I hey I'm a betting man, but perhaps not today, yes.

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and then like set the stage for where we're at.

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Like clearly this is there's work to do.

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So the research I had seen getting prepared for this was

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comparing Europe and China and then Asia like more generally,

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between like a research on one hand and like capacity on

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the other.

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Like, can you help set the stage?

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Sure.

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So you know the best way to start setting the stage

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is to talk just very briefly about the petroleum industry.

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Because the reality is the vast majority of our chemicals today

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that feed into all of the products that we're talking about

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come from the petroleum industry.

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And

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it

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when you sort of break down the petroleum industry, the vast

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majority of petroleum goes into fuel and fuel products.

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We know that. We are not gonna spend a lot of

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time talking about that.

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But it's also a scale that is really hard for people

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to understand.

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So one of my favorite statistics about the chemicals industry, which

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is principally from petroleum,

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is the top 50 companies, five zero companies

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globally

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represent four trillion dollars of revenue a year.

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so it's fairly large.

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And it's because when you take this underlying question of, hey,

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like what is everything made from?

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It's made from these chemicals.

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So you asked about the challenges.

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What are some of the principal challenges?

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Well, one of the biggest challenges we face in the US

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is that

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we stopped being a major chemical producer

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about 25 years ago.

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We do a great job. with petroleum, we have we are

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actually a net petroleum exporter now.

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We have refineries that are developing fuel products,

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but those aren't making the biggest global contributions to the chemicals

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industry anymore. The largest single contribution

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they were.

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We were the in 1980, we were the best.

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Right? We were the principal leader in this space.

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But we divested while other companies invested, or excuse me, other

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countries invested.

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And the biggest investor was

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you know, largely the Chinese government making investments that

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have grown over the last 25 years to make China by

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far the largest put chemical exporter.

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In the world. So they now represent roughly a third of

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global chemical exports.

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And you know, the industry is so big, every country around

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the world has a role to play if they want to.

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But

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you start to ask a question of: okay, well, what do

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those supply chains then look like?

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And how do we think about in the US?

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Our manufacturing base of end products that consumers want and

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their own supply chains and what they want.

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And if they are principally buying

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from

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companies that do their manufacturing in countries that are across

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the largest ocean in the world,

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then

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We're probably not taking advantage of all of the opportunities

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in front of us for the value chain for domestic chemical

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manufacturing. And so that's the crux of the challenge.

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And so then we ask, okay, well, what can we do

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about it?

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Yeah.

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What are our options?

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Yeah.

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Well, a question I get commonly at BioMADE is:

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hey, why are we focused on this biotech and biomanufacturing stuff?

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Why doesn't the chemical industry

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just start manufacturing more chemicals.

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and it's actually a really good question, right?

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Let's start there.

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Well the main reason is that

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they divested 25 years ago

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because it is a really hard industry to be profitable in.

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And

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companies need to be profitable to be successful.

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Now we're facing two problems.

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One

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The fact that we divested a quarter of a century ago

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means that any infrastructure that we have

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is at best

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a quarter of a century old.

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Yeah.

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Most of it

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is 125 years old at this point, right?

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Because the lifespans of these large scale manufacturing facilities are very long.

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Yeah.

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The second problem is, well, they divested for a reason.

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They divested because the economics are really hard in the US.

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And that hasn't principally changed in the chemicals industry.

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So there's

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Yeah.

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not a good incentive broadly for them to come back.

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So,

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BioMADE's bet.

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Our bet is that we can solve both of these problems

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using

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biomanufacturing,

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which is a completely different set of infrastructure than the chemical

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industry needs at the front end,

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and a completely different economic case,

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which

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Before roughly now

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hurt the biomanufacturing industry.

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But now we're kind of right on the cusp of getting

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over the edge and saying,

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hey, with targeted bets,

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we can do some really interesting things by onshoring chemical production.

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And if we take those steps in a meaningful way,

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when you and I are doing this podcast 100 years from

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now, we'll be talking about

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how the US is leading in chemical manufacturing and not the

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other way around.

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Yes.

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because things

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str this is a structural change i is one hand I

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would imagine. I would guess there's technological change that's taken place

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since that like it can make it more available.

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And I'm sure there's like a

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resilience and like a wanting things sourced domestically perhaps

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just raises like people's willingness to pay to some extent, I'm

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sure.

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And perhaps so there's more capital available.

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Or there's perhaps capital that has not gone into AI that

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can go elsewhere.

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if you i if

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Some

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you find that capital, please let me know.

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no doubt. Okay. Yeah.

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and then getting before we delve into more of like the

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how people do it now or like what BioMADE has set

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up,

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knowing a little bit of how you got here without the

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full when you were five and what soccer team that you

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started playing on. your journey's pretty interesting.

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I love it. Total progression. Like looking at like the different

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stages. And so clearly a couple of things happened where you

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had like a revelation or where you had a good connection

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that led you to like make a couple of the jumps.

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a couple of those, if you wouldn't mind going into that

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just helped to get you to where you are today.

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I would imagine working in Washington.

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My dad worked in Washington back in the day for a

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period of time as a very like

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a pivotal point for him in his career

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and I imagine that was one for you as well.

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Yeah, it certainly was. And I can give you a few

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kind of big blocks that helped get us to why I'm

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intensely focused on this particular problem today.

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Yes.

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so you know, we started with the fact that at the

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end of so I'm a scientist by training.

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I will never not be a scientist.

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I kind of

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I found that chemistry was easy for me.

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many other things, most other things maybe in my life are

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hard for me, but

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Sure.

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I managed to find a thing, right?

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Yep.

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And you know

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So I I'm very

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interested in innovation around the chemical sciences and

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around you know how chemicals impact the world around us and

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how we are impacted by chemicals.

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00:11:36,931 --> 00:11:39,415
You know, if you any other chemist who might be listening

272
00:11:39,415 --> 00:11:41,586
to this would say, Hey Doug, that doesn't actually make any

273
00:11:41,586 --> 00:11:41,986
sense.

274
00:11:42,471 --> 00:11:45,445
that's true. I get you. But the fact that this inner

275
00:11:45,445 --> 00:11:47,966
relation is it really matters. And so,

276
00:11:48,697 --> 00:11:52,420
you know, what that ultimately led though for me was to

277
00:11:52,420 --> 00:11:56,552
understand that in order for all of this underlying science and

278
00:11:56,552 --> 00:11:59,514
innovation to make an impact, we have to understand

279
00:12:00,275 --> 00:12:01,269
what are

280
00:12:01,796 --> 00:12:05,578
one the levers in society that are available to make a

281
00:12:05,578 --> 00:12:06,718
positive impact.

282
00:12:07,499 --> 00:12:08,339
And two,

283
00:12:09,089 --> 00:12:13,162
how can we do that in a meaningful and expedient way?

284
00:12:13,672 --> 00:12:13,948
Yeah.

285
00:12:14,383 --> 00:12:16,524
I have always been relatively impatient.

286
00:12:17,223 --> 00:12:19,574
Maybe that's why I started founding things, and we'll get there

287
00:12:19,574 --> 00:12:20,304
in a second.

288
00:12:20,735 --> 00:12:21,063
Yeah.

289
00:12:20,765 --> 00:12:24,436
But being expedient about it is really important because that's how

290
00:12:24,436 --> 00:12:26,227
you make a real difference.

291
00:12:26,808 --> 00:12:29,634
And so after graduate school, I had an amazing opportunity to

292
00:12:29,634 --> 00:12:33,056
work at the National Academy of Sciences in Washington, DC,

293
00:12:33,696 --> 00:12:38,158
and do this technology road mapping for many

294
00:12:38,158 --> 00:12:42,360
agencies across the federal government. So everything from the National Institutes

295
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,561
of Health to the National Science Foundation to the Department of

296
00:12:45,561 --> 00:12:48,487
Transportation to the Department of Defense, to the Department of Homeland

297
00:12:48,487 --> 00:12:52,308
Security, right? Sort of the interesting part about being a chemist

298
00:12:52,308 --> 00:12:52,778
there

299
00:12:53,498 --> 00:12:56,939
is it's true. Everything is made of chemicals, which means it

300
00:12:56,939 --> 00:12:57,299
impacts

301
00:12:56,970 --> 00:12:57,372
Like, guys,

302
00:12:57,299 --> 00:12:57,777
everything.

303
00:12:57,372 --> 00:12:58,306
you don't understand.

304
00:12:59,020 --> 00:12:59,440
Yeah,

305
00:12:59,080 --> 00:12:59,566
Yeah.

306
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,201
like, right? And what that exposed me to though was how

307
00:13:04,201 --> 00:13:05,461
a lot of others

308
00:13:06,121 --> 00:13:10,352
really are viewing the demand signal and the need for

309
00:13:10,352 --> 00:13:11,282
innovation,

310
00:13:11,982 --> 00:13:15,340
both economic and technological in the chemicals industry.

311
00:13:15,876 --> 00:13:16,127
Yeah.

312
00:13:16,589 --> 00:13:21,062
And that oh ultimately drove me to start my

313
00:13:21,062 --> 00:13:24,843
first nonprofit consortium called the Engineering Biology Research Consortium or

314
00:13:25,246 --> 00:13:29,748
EBRC was focused really on early innovation.

315
00:13:29,748 --> 00:13:31,468
So, like the academic side

316
00:13:32,189 --> 00:13:36,680
of metabolic engineering and science and technology to help manufacture

317
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,191
chemicals using biology.

318
00:13:38,751 --> 00:13:41,312
Part of that came from all of this road mapping work

319
00:13:41,352 --> 00:13:43,093
I was doing where I said, you know.

320
00:13:43,743 --> 00:13:47,115
I have this amazing chemical background, but by far the best

321
00:13:47,115 --> 00:13:47,835
chemist

322
00:13:48,616 --> 00:13:49,317
is nature.

323
00:13:50,017 --> 00:13:50,397
Right?

324
00:13:50,112 --> 00:13:50,403
Yep.

325
00:13:50,518 --> 00:13:51,018
We are

326
00:13:51,065 --> 00:13:51,315
The

327
00:13:51,078 --> 00:13:51,508
living

328
00:13:51,315 --> 00:13:51,866
ultimate.

329
00:13:51,508 --> 00:13:52,419
proof of that.

330
00:13:52,729 --> 00:13:53,110
Yeah.

331
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,512
And so let's use that, harness that technology.

332
00:13:56,512 --> 00:13:57,102
And I had

333
00:13:57,635 --> 00:14:01,437
amazing opportunities with some amazing mentors to help build that

334
00:14:01,981 --> 00:14:05,343
consortium. And so EBRC still exists, it's thriving.

335
00:14:05,428 --> 00:14:07,950
I had an opportunity after I started BioMADE to hand it

336
00:14:07,950 --> 00:14:11,092
off to other leaders who are doing amazing things with it.

337
00:14:11,490 --> 00:14:11,828
Nice.

338
00:14:13,059 --> 00:14:17,452
But then kind of getting to BioMADE, the reason BioMADE exists

339
00:14:18,013 --> 00:14:22,576
is because if we stop focusing at the early stage

340
00:14:22,857 --> 00:14:27,630
and don't get into manufacturing, scale up, and deployment of

341
00:14:27,630 --> 00:14:28,441
products,

342
00:14:28,961 --> 00:14:30,943
then we're not having the impact.

343
00:14:31,303 --> 00:14:33,364
And we weren't doing that in

344
00:14:33,858 --> 00:14:35,839
as coordinated as a way

345
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:36,960
as we

346
00:14:37,761 --> 00:14:38,682
thought we could.

347
00:14:39,644 --> 00:14:43,439
and that really led to BioMADE's creation where hey EBRC focuses

348
00:14:43,439 --> 00:14:44,541
on the early tech.

349
00:14:45,042 --> 00:14:49,047
We try to pick it up and help transition those products

350
00:14:49,187 --> 00:14:53,713
and those technologies to make a more direct and meaningful societal

351
00:14:53,713 --> 00:14:54,294
impact.

352
00:14:54,982 --> 00:14:57,884
and along the way I've had a number of opportunities working

353
00:14:57,884 --> 00:14:58,285
with

354
00:14:58,725 --> 00:15:01,688
the Defense Department, working with the White House Office of Science

355
00:15:01,688 --> 00:15:05,330
and Technology Policy, working with a bunch of others at the

356
00:15:05,330 --> 00:15:08,293
intersection of government and the private sector to be able to

357
00:15:08,293 --> 00:15:09,434
really drive that forward.

358
00:15:10,337 --> 00:15:13,959
Yes, and you have not been hired by Anthropic yet to

359
00:15:13,959 --> 00:15:15,113
go work in their lab.

360
00:15:15,736 --> 00:15:18,747
I have not been hired by Anthropic yet to go no.

361
00:15:19,115 --> 00:15:21,216
and you know

362
00:15:21,676 --> 00:15:24,287
AI is gonna AI is a super important technology.

363
00:15:24,826 --> 00:15:25,122
Yes.

364
00:15:24,968 --> 00:15:27,258
it's gonna be a world changing technology.

365
00:15:27,977 --> 00:15:28,937
computers

366
00:15:29,937 --> 00:15:31,218
will never

367
00:15:31,961 --> 00:15:33,061
on their own

368
00:15:33,761 --> 00:15:34,982
be enough for people.

369
00:15:35,697 --> 00:15:37,998
We will always be manufacturing stuff.

370
00:15:38,258 --> 00:15:40,519
We will always need chemicals to do it.

371
00:15:40,945 --> 00:15:43,737
So I'm feeling pretty good about the

372
00:15:44,397 --> 00:15:48,149
space ahead of us to say, Hey, like that might help

373
00:15:48,149 --> 00:15:49,850
us that's gonna help us move faster.

374
00:15:49,850 --> 00:15:52,141
AI's doing an amaz some amazing things.

375
00:15:52,482 --> 00:15:52,762
But if

376
00:15:52,691 --> 00:15:53,060
Yeah.

377
00:15:52,762 --> 00:15:55,624
you don't have the underlying chemicals to be able to manufacture

378
00:15:55,624 --> 00:15:58,505
the products that people want and the products that we need

379
00:15:58,603 --> 00:15:59,454
to survive,

380
00:16:00,254 --> 00:16:01,185
we're gonna have a hard time.

381
00:16:01,889 --> 00:16:05,703
Yeah, totally. I just it's funny, when I first conceptually like

382
00:16:05,823 --> 00:16:08,870
made sense of like of them getting into the biology space,

383
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:11,316
like it took me a minute to like connect all the

384
00:16:11,316 --> 00:16:11,736
dots.

385
00:16:12,159 --> 00:16:16,959
taking making a bigger impact, and then finding capital

386
00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:18,839
and talent

387
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,426
and then facilities. Those are the three of like where I

388
00:16:23,426 --> 00:16:25,567
would think we would take this, that like you needed

389
00:16:25,273 --> 00:16:25,583
Uh huh.

390
00:16:25,567 --> 00:16:27,418
all of those to get from the idea.

391
00:16:27,884 --> 00:16:30,169
and like the first version of it,

392
00:16:30,613 --> 00:16:33,776
a larger version of it that scales a bit.

393
00:16:34,157 --> 00:16:37,502
So if you wouldn't mind, like it's super unique to have

394
00:16:37,575 --> 00:16:39,848
like government funding for something like this

395
00:16:40,428 --> 00:16:44,227
and then to figure out like who can then help you

396
00:16:44,227 --> 00:16:47,620
and what skills do you need, like what does your organization

397
00:16:47,620 --> 00:16:50,753
need to grow and how does that help the people who

398
00:16:50,753 --> 00:16:51,374
are members?

399
00:16:52,530 --> 00:16:54,041
Yeah, that's a it's a great question.

400
00:16:54,041 --> 00:16:55,987
So I'll kind of tackle those one by one.

401
00:16:56,409 --> 00:17:00,869
you know, we're really fortunate. BioMADE started through a

402
00:17:00,869 --> 00:17:03,793
program that's really focused on national manufacturing.

403
00:17:03,793 --> 00:17:05,821
So there's a program that is now

404
00:17:06,302 --> 00:17:08,833
I'm gonna get the number a little wrong, 17, 18 years

405
00:17:08,833 --> 00:17:09,083
old.

406
00:17:09,629 --> 00:17:10,990
called Manufacturing USA, where

407
00:17:11,727 --> 00:17:15,958
The federal government, a department or agency, identifies a manufacturing

408
00:17:15,958 --> 00:17:19,180
technology area that is important

409
00:17:19,820 --> 00:17:23,441
of national importance, right? And that is a political decision that

410
00:17:23,441 --> 00:17:23,821
some

411
00:17:24,261 --> 00:17:25,802
someone is making somewhere.

412
00:17:26,362 --> 00:17:30,747
And there are now 18 of these institutes around the

413
00:17:30,747 --> 00:17:33,768
country focused on different manufacturing technology areas.

414
00:17:34,340 --> 00:17:37,648
So there are some. The very first one is based in

415
00:17:37,648 --> 00:17:41,303
Ohio, focused on additive manufacturing and 3D printing.

416
00:17:41,754 --> 00:17:42,220
Totally.

417
00:17:42,135 --> 00:17:42,935
Right? They've

418
00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:43,167
Yeah.

419
00:17:42,935 --> 00:17:44,275
been working, so it totally makes sense.

420
00:17:44,275 --> 00:17:47,006
So we were really fortunate that this program existed

421
00:17:47,567 --> 00:17:49,267
and we were able to

422
00:17:49,934 --> 00:17:50,414
get

423
00:17:50,975 --> 00:17:55,234
some initial tranche of funding of almost ninety million dollars over

424
00:17:55,234 --> 00:17:58,945
five years back in 2020 to be able to catalyze the

425
00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:01,903
start of BioMADE. and that was used for a lot of

426
00:18:01,903 --> 00:18:04,752
things. It was used to establish the organization, but it was

427
00:18:04,752 --> 00:18:06,833
also used to make investments.

428
00:18:07,811 --> 00:18:11,903
in our member community to be able to develop some of

429
00:18:11,903 --> 00:18:15,546
these technologies as well as invest in the workforce

430
00:18:16,086 --> 00:18:20,479
so that we're able to help with manufacturing technician job

431
00:18:20,479 --> 00:18:25,227
creation and worker transition and workforce development in that kind of

432
00:18:25,227 --> 00:18:25,538
way.

433
00:18:26,430 --> 00:18:28,692
And so we were able to start in that kind of

434
00:18:28,752 --> 00:18:29,993
in that kind of mode.

435
00:18:30,434 --> 00:18:32,195
And then we really grew from there.

436
00:18:32,301 --> 00:18:35,191
you know, I'm incredibly fortunate to have an amazing team of

437
00:18:35,191 --> 00:18:39,315
talented people that are working at the interface of government and

438
00:18:39,315 --> 00:18:40,286
the private sector.

439
00:18:41,006 --> 00:18:44,634
And you know, you mentioned your dad worked in Washington.

440
00:18:45,389 --> 00:18:48,011
the government is very different from the private sector.

441
00:18:48,414 --> 00:18:48,724
Yes.

442
00:18:48,732 --> 00:18:49,032
And

443
00:18:49,541 --> 00:18:54,055
In our industry, in industrial biomanufacturing, for the most part, people

444
00:18:54,055 --> 00:18:57,327
don't have a lot of experience working with the government.

445
00:18:57,506 --> 00:19:01,400
However, when the government decides to make investments, they can be

446
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,581
substantial. And

447
00:19:02,525 --> 00:19:02,875
Yeah.

448
00:19:02,581 --> 00:19:05,574
so knowing how to work with them is really important.

449
00:19:05,821 --> 00:19:06,085
Yeah.

450
00:19:05,934 --> 00:19:08,846
And in a lot of ways, we're the kind of translator

451
00:19:09,127 --> 00:19:12,589
and implementer in between those two worlds.

452
00:19:12,783 --> 00:19:13,169
Yeah.

453
00:19:12,970 --> 00:19:16,092
Because in a lot of ways, the government doesn't really know

454
00:19:16,092 --> 00:19:17,754
how to work with the private sector either.

455
00:19:18,383 --> 00:19:19,960
That's not their specialty. Yeah.

456
00:19:20,022 --> 00:19:23,535
It is not. So that intersection is really interesting for us

457
00:19:23,535 --> 00:19:27,128
and that's allowed us to develop many of our program areas

458
00:19:27,128 --> 00:19:28,509
and our infrastructure areas.

459
00:19:29,431 --> 00:19:33,200
Yeah. And it was cool to learn that this is not

460
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:36,985
like just working with companies and providing like a skills and

461
00:19:36,985 --> 00:19:39,197
training and insights and like a consulting.

462
00:19:39,625 --> 00:19:43,281
you have maybe a building you own, one you lease and

463
00:19:43,281 --> 00:19:46,212
one that's on like a university land, I think is what

464
00:19:46,212 --> 00:19:46,902
I could gather.

465
00:19:47,395 --> 00:19:51,400
And That's fascinating 'cause I know at University of California Irvine

466
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,856
here they have university buildings that are built by a local

467
00:19:54,856 --> 00:19:58,062
developer and then they rent out wet lab space and like

468
00:19:58,062 --> 00:19:59,635
that's a way for startups

469
00:20:00,380 --> 00:20:04,022
and people in research at the university to have infrastructure where

470
00:20:04,022 --> 00:20:07,104
they can work and grow and then they have a ecosystem

471
00:20:07,104 --> 00:20:10,161
where they have VCs and like they try and like have

472
00:20:10,161 --> 00:20:11,902
a way for those people to grow.

473
00:20:12,262 --> 00:20:16,511
And so your you have a version of that or your

474
00:20:16,511 --> 00:20:18,372
own version that you've created.

475
00:20:18,921 --> 00:20:19,421
So

476
00:20:19,975 --> 00:20:21,758
like a that's a unique setup.

477
00:20:21,758 --> 00:20:23,899
How like how did you come up with that?

478
00:20:23,899 --> 00:20:26,791
'Cause when I saw like not tanks for rent

479
00:20:27,277 --> 00:20:31,117
But like some form of infrastructure where people can come in

480
00:20:31,117 --> 00:20:33,008
and be a part of it and use what they need

481
00:20:33,008 --> 00:20:37,052
to run experiments or to like try out new business ideas.

482
00:20:37,492 --> 00:20:41,941
Like that is you then getting directly involved in like

483
00:20:41,941 --> 00:20:45,604
having the place and the space and the equipment.

484
00:20:46,338 --> 00:20:48,358
Yeah, so well I'll start with

485
00:20:48,974 --> 00:20:52,807
I did not set out to have three sort of unique

486
00:20:52,807 --> 00:20:55,449
real estate deals going

487
00:20:55,106 --> 00:20:55,527
yes.

488
00:20:55,449 --> 00:20:58,350
for this pilot plant network, but I will get I will

489
00:20:58,350 --> 00:20:59,901
explain how we got there because it

490
00:21:00,342 --> 00:21:02,624
it's interesting to me. I think it'll be interesting to you

491
00:21:02,724 --> 00:21:04,897
and hopefully to your listeners as well.

492
00:21:05,727 --> 00:21:08,068
but the problem we were trying to solve, right, is

493
00:21:08,835 --> 00:21:13,260
We don't have enough pilot and demonstration scale manufacturing

494
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:14,080
capacity

495
00:21:14,881 --> 00:21:17,583
for industrial biotech in the United States.

496
00:21:18,023 --> 00:21:22,126
And so we were able to get both Congress and state

497
00:21:22,126 --> 00:21:26,570
and local governments to make investments to be able to build

498
00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:27,731
some of this infrastructure.

499
00:21:28,271 --> 00:21:30,523
And We were able to raise quite a lot of money,

500
00:21:30,523 --> 00:21:35,199
right? We've raised over $650 million all told for this infrastructure

501
00:21:35,199 --> 00:21:35,649
effort.

502
00:21:36,090 --> 00:21:40,044
And that's what got us to announcing the three facilities that

503
00:21:40,044 --> 00:21:42,978
we're currently building in California, Minnesota, and Iowa.

504
00:21:43,386 --> 00:21:47,737
Because we are a nonprofit and working with government

505
00:21:47,737 --> 00:21:51,188
investment in establishing these facilities,

506
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:56,060
it sometimes means we need to be and think creatively about

507
00:21:56,060 --> 00:21:59,231
the types of deals that we put in place

508
00:21:59,569 --> 00:21:59,852
Yeah.

509
00:21:59,811 --> 00:22:02,572
because we have sometimes unique constraints.

510
00:22:02,951 --> 00:22:03,249
Yeah.

511
00:22:03,092 --> 00:22:05,763
And so I'll just kind of walk through the opportunities that

512
00:22:05,763 --> 00:22:08,440
we had. So in Minnesota, which was the first deal that

513
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,170
we announced.

514
00:22:10,278 --> 00:22:13,451
We had we were able to secure an investment from the

515
00:22:13,451 --> 00:22:14,912
Minnesota state government

516
00:22:15,664 --> 00:22:17,125
of fifty million dollars

517
00:22:17,766 --> 00:22:21,059
to be matched with federal funds to build

518
00:22:20,767 --> 00:22:21,019
Nice.

519
00:22:21,059 --> 00:22:22,009
out a facility,

520
00:22:22,565 --> 00:22:23,426
which is amazing.

521
00:22:23,826 --> 00:22:25,007
So, you know,

522
00:22:25,908 --> 00:22:30,669
our because these facilities exist for so long, it is in

523
00:22:30,669 --> 00:22:32,130
our interest to buy.

524
00:22:32,811 --> 00:22:33,091
And

525
00:22:32,881 --> 00:22:33,162
Yep.

526
00:22:33,091 --> 00:22:33,651
under that

527
00:22:33,445 --> 00:22:34,088
Totally.

528
00:22:33,651 --> 00:22:34,652
deal structure.

529
00:22:34,955 --> 00:22:35,246
Yep.

530
00:22:35,087 --> 00:22:38,485
We were able to acquire a basically a warehouse.

531
00:22:39,291 --> 00:22:42,525
and for us, a warehouse is amazing because it and my

532
00:22:42,525 --> 00:22:45,137
engineers love it because they're like, there are No walls is

533
00:22:45,137 --> 00:22:47,769
perfect. That means I can do everything I need to do

534
00:22:47,769 --> 00:22:49,150
without having a lot of demo.

535
00:22:49,734 --> 00:22:50,975
so we were able to purchase, right?

536
00:22:50,975 --> 00:22:55,141
So that deal allowed us to purchase this, purchase a building

537
00:22:55,141 --> 00:22:58,376
that we're now turning into what will be our largest scale

538
00:22:59,094 --> 00:23:00,315
demonstration facility.

539
00:23:01,222 --> 00:23:05,219
in California, by contrast, the way we were able to raise

540
00:23:05,219 --> 00:23:05,999
the capital,

541
00:23:06,731 --> 00:23:10,272
we had some restrictions on government dollars that precluded us from

542
00:23:10,272 --> 00:23:11,232
making a purchase.

543
00:23:11,712 --> 00:23:15,694
And so we had identified an opportunity actually from

544
00:23:16,117 --> 00:23:18,704
a company that had partially built

545
00:23:19,324 --> 00:23:20,565
a pilot facility.

546
00:23:20,965 --> 00:23:21,130
Oh,

547
00:23:21,037 --> 00:23:21,197
And

548
00:23:21,130 --> 00:23:21,431
nice.

549
00:23:21,197 --> 00:23:25,833
we were able to acquire this partially built facility and work

550
00:23:25,833 --> 00:23:28,485
with their landlords to come up with

551
00:23:29,310 --> 00:23:32,894
a deal that made sense and that was economically feasible

552
00:23:33,498 --> 00:23:36,103
in Hayward, California. And that's that's what's happening there.

553
00:23:36,103 --> 00:23:38,825
And the reason we've announced that Hayward will open first

554
00:23:39,385 --> 00:23:41,156
is because we got a head start.

555
00:23:41,156 --> 00:23:44,078
We bought a partially constructed facility essentially, right?

556
00:23:44,078 --> 00:23:44,318
So we're

557
00:23:44,196 --> 00:23:44,589
Yes.

558
00:23:44,318 --> 00:23:45,468
not starting from scratch.

559
00:23:45,963 --> 00:23:46,275
Yeah.

560
00:23:47,020 --> 00:23:50,704
And then in Iowa, a totally different set of opportunities and

561
00:23:50,704 --> 00:23:55,339
constraints. We had an investment from Governor Reynolds, the governor of

562
00:23:55,339 --> 00:23:56,989
Iowa of ten million dollars.

563
00:23:57,405 --> 00:24:00,745
that required working in partnership with

564
00:24:01,156 --> 00:24:05,526
Iowa State University and other entities in Iowa, which is amazing.

565
00:24:05,526 --> 00:24:07,657
That's exactly what we exist to do.

566
00:24:07,657 --> 00:24:09,357
Iowa

567
00:24:08,216 --> 00:24:08,467
Yeah.

568
00:24:09,357 --> 00:24:10,854
State University had

569
00:24:11,540 --> 00:24:15,977
a facility that they had already been working on from

570
00:24:16,703 --> 00:24:20,644
some prior investment at a smaller scale from the National Science

571
00:24:20,644 --> 00:24:24,776
Foundation. And we had an opportunity to essentially join them and

572
00:24:24,776 --> 00:24:28,847
be quite literally next door in the same building for a

573
00:24:28,847 --> 00:24:30,548
larger scale up facility

574
00:24:31,142 --> 00:24:33,291
and be on and sort of

575
00:24:33,771 --> 00:24:38,473
ancillary part of their campus and work a deal that's been

576
00:24:38,773 --> 00:24:42,072
an amazing partnership with Iowa State to get it done.

577
00:24:42,352 --> 00:24:44,263
And I think I'll just briefly say, you know, this goes

578
00:24:44,293 --> 00:24:48,516
Back to something I shared before about working with urgency on

579
00:24:48,516 --> 00:24:49,356
these problems.

580
00:24:49,701 --> 00:24:50,001
Yes.

581
00:24:50,357 --> 00:24:51,035
You know,

582
00:24:51,757 --> 00:24:53,858
it is not a one size fits all solution.

583
00:24:54,184 --> 00:24:58,845
we can be creative and come up with mutually beneficial

584
00:24:59,405 --> 00:25:02,546
arrangements that cut across the spectrum,

585
00:25:02,924 --> 00:25:03,314
Yeah.

586
00:25:02,986 --> 00:25:05,237
you know, if we're really focused on what is the end

587
00:25:05,237 --> 00:25:06,747
result and what are we trying to solve.

588
00:25:07,382 --> 00:25:10,222
Yeah. I love it. Then you can say, we can go

589
00:25:10,222 --> 00:25:11,759
whatever direction makes it happen.

590
00:25:12,481 --> 00:25:15,053
Yeah, that's awesome. What how fun is that?

591
00:25:15,133 --> 00:25:19,230
Yeah, like connecting the federal and the state and then

592
00:25:19,322 --> 00:25:24,072
universities and private and then the serendipity of finding a plant

593
00:25:24,072 --> 00:25:25,243
that's half built out.

594
00:25:26,084 --> 00:25:26,365
Yeah.

595
00:25:26,949 --> 00:25:27,658
And learning a lot.

596
00:25:28,506 --> 00:25:30,587
Yeah. Oh, I could only imagine.

597
00:25:30,607 --> 00:25:34,000
Yeah. Now you're in charge of making sure all of those

598
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,322
work out like are built correctly in the city and everything

599
00:25:37,322 --> 00:25:38,553
that goes into construction.

600
00:25:39,225 --> 00:25:42,425
If you look inside the four walls, what do you see

601
00:25:42,425 --> 00:25:42,916
today?

602
00:25:43,658 --> 00:25:47,478
so you know we've we have three very different looking facilities

603
00:25:47,549 --> 00:25:50,129
right now. And so in Minnesota we

604
00:25:51,182 --> 00:25:53,794
see a lot of holes in the ground and holes in

605
00:25:53,794 --> 00:25:57,107
the roof and holes all over the place as we're putting

606
00:25:57,107 --> 00:26:01,850
together the sort of ancillary infrastructure that's necessary before we

607
00:26:01,850 --> 00:26:04,708
put the equipment In California, we have a lot of equipment

608
00:26:04,708 --> 00:26:07,732
in place. we actually just held an open house for our

609
00:26:07,732 --> 00:26:10,069
members to start to see what the facility's

610
00:26:09,928 --> 00:26:10,605
Nice.

611
00:26:10,069 --> 00:26:11,080
gonna be looking like.

612
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:11,857
it's happening.

613
00:26:11,962 --> 00:26:13,245
About month and a half ago.

614
00:26:13,245 --> 00:26:15,806
That was super exciting. We also had our Department of Defense

615
00:26:15,806 --> 00:26:18,540
colleagues in town so that they were able to interact with

616
00:26:18,540 --> 00:26:20,598
the community, which was great. and then

617
00:26:21,418 --> 00:26:24,879
Iowa is still in the planning stages and so we're planning

618
00:26:24,879 --> 00:26:27,297
and and developing with the university from there.

619
00:26:28,308 --> 00:26:28,699
Okay.

620
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,338
So still dirt.

621
00:26:30,919 --> 00:26:32,142
Still going through like

622
00:26:33,204 --> 00:26:33,495
yeah.

623
00:26:33,466 --> 00:26:33,866
well

624
00:26:34,968 --> 00:26:38,311
dirt ish. because we have because they have a an amazing

625
00:26:38,311 --> 00:26:39,732
building that we're able to

626
00:26:40,166 --> 00:26:42,256
tack on to. They're actually, you know

627
00:26:42,902 --> 00:26:46,652
There's a lot of utilities that are required for

628
00:26:47,032 --> 00:26:49,814
facilities like this. And so, you know, again, part of the

629
00:26:49,814 --> 00:26:52,705
advantage of partnering with like a university

630
00:26:53,106 --> 00:26:56,193
and that is doing some of this work already is, you

631
00:26:56,193 --> 00:26:58,969
know, some of the utilities are already in place, right?

632
00:26:58,969 --> 00:27:01,500
That makes up speed, that makes up time, that makes up

633
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,594
cost, all of those things super important.

634
00:27:04,987 --> 00:27:05,828
yeah, that's

635
00:27:06,265 --> 00:27:07,676
once you get into that

636
00:27:08,117 --> 00:27:11,299
sphere, that's probably the most relatable for me of like all

637
00:27:11,299 --> 00:27:13,941
companies having to deal with what's it take to get set

638
00:27:13,941 --> 00:27:14,181
up

639
00:27:14,601 --> 00:27:17,694
with the and like how much power are you gonna need,

640
00:27:17,694 --> 00:27:19,705
how's it gonna be plumbed in there, where do you get

641
00:27:19,705 --> 00:27:22,280
all the equipment, who's gonna pay for it all, how long's

642
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,149
it take, and who are the people that permit it, or

643
00:27:25,149 --> 00:27:27,670
the specialists there. that's the fun stuff.

644
00:27:27,670 --> 00:27:29,787
Those are the construction related constraints.

645
00:27:30,428 --> 00:27:32,844
Yeah. A lot of the like there's a lot of long

646
00:27:32,844 --> 00:27:36,373
lead equipment that has long lead very long leads these days.

647
00:27:37,117 --> 00:27:37,688
Yeah.

648
00:27:38,513 --> 00:27:41,300
for you if you expand on that, like I would imagine

649
00:27:41,389 --> 00:27:44,793
the equipment I think of is like switchgear or transformers where

650
00:27:44,793 --> 00:27:47,829
I would imagine you got equipment inside the four walls that

651
00:27:48,150 --> 00:27:49,808
like perhaps have their own.

652
00:27:50,197 --> 00:27:53,273
Yeah. Well we yeah, so we have we need both, right?

653
00:27:53,588 --> 00:27:57,050
so we have power constraints, we have water constraints, we have

654
00:27:57,434 --> 00:28:01,494
waste constraints, right? there's a lot that goes into a biomanufacturing

655
00:28:01,494 --> 00:28:05,300
facility. but then you know a good example right now is

656
00:28:05,340 --> 00:28:06,001
the amount of

657
00:28:06,949 --> 00:28:07,950
the amount of steel

658
00:28:08,430 --> 00:28:13,002
inside the four walls for both custom built equipment

659
00:28:13,088 --> 00:28:16,349
and off the shelf equipment and then stitching it all together.

660
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:20,792
The price of steel just in the last I think, two years

661
00:28:20,792 --> 00:28:22,232
has gone up 45 percent.

662
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:25,851
Right. That is a huge challenge.

663
00:28:26,431 --> 00:28:29,552
Right. Every day that goes by where you don't have your

664
00:28:29,552 --> 00:28:33,170
orders in and your leads. And again, we have amazing partners

665
00:28:33,170 --> 00:28:36,331
that we work with, but the entire industry is dealing with

666
00:28:36,691 --> 00:28:39,032
a really challenging set of constraints right now

667
00:28:39,472 --> 00:28:39,992
that

668
00:28:40,673 --> 00:28:42,453
are kind of hidden from all sides.

669
00:28:43,013 --> 00:28:47,194
And because some of these construction timelines, right, months and years,

670
00:28:48,195 --> 00:28:49,045
we don't know what

671
00:28:49,607 --> 00:28:52,230
a year from now is gonna look like in every way

672
00:28:52,391 --> 00:28:53,752
possible and you know

673
00:28:54,617 --> 00:28:57,805
certainly wouldn't think we would be here where we are today

674
00:28:58,299 --> 00:28:59,080
a year ago.

675
00:28:59,641 --> 00:29:03,025
And so, you know, making sure that we're do actively managing

676
00:29:03,136 --> 00:29:05,365
these projects is really important.

677
00:29:05,841 --> 00:29:08,393
Yeah, do you buy extra? Do you sit on it?

678
00:29:08,393 --> 00:29:12,495
Do you like buy insurance equipment or steel or yeah.

679
00:29:13,370 --> 00:29:14,782
knowing you don't want to do it again.

680
00:29:14,782 --> 00:29:17,107
And when you do it again it could be worse, it

681
00:29:17,107 --> 00:29:18,448
could be better. That's hard to know.

682
00:29:19,257 --> 00:29:20,034
It's hard to know.

683
00:29:20,603 --> 00:29:21,244
so when you

684
00:29:21,983 --> 00:29:24,607
take the vision of what these will look like when they're

685
00:29:24,607 --> 00:29:27,921
all built out and they're fully humming along, filled with all

686
00:29:27,921 --> 00:29:31,357
the members and new members and everybody is doing their thing,

687
00:29:31,357 --> 00:29:33,060
like what's that vision look like?

688
00:29:33,764 --> 00:29:34,134
Yeah.

689
00:29:34,555 --> 00:29:35,334
So, you know,

690
00:29:35,781 --> 00:29:38,462
I should probably describe what these facilities even look like in

691
00:29:38,462 --> 00:29:40,414
the first place, right? Like, you know, what does this actually

692
00:29:40,414 --> 00:29:42,205
look like and then have a simple user?

693
00:29:42,973 --> 00:29:43,374
so

694
00:29:44,135 --> 00:29:46,196
at the kind of most basic level,

695
00:29:46,635 --> 00:29:48,295
imagine a craft brewery.

696
00:29:49,316 --> 00:29:52,401
Many people, most people I like have been to a craft

697
00:29:52,401 --> 00:29:52,912
brewery,

698
00:29:53,281 --> 00:29:53,609
Yes.

699
00:29:53,532 --> 00:29:58,225
right? You see large fermentation tanks and equipment around those

700
00:29:58,225 --> 00:29:59,196
fermentation tanks.

701
00:30:00,392 --> 00:30:01,933
It looks basically like that.

702
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,552
and some of the technology is not so far off, right?

703
00:30:05,572 --> 00:30:07,213
Brewing beer

704
00:30:07,994 --> 00:30:11,035
is really the same technology that we're talking about here.

705
00:30:11,496 --> 00:30:15,518
It's taking microorganisms, in the case of beer, yeast,

706
00:30:16,358 --> 00:30:17,499
putting it in a tank.

707
00:30:18,019 --> 00:30:22,744
In that tank, the yeast eat sugar, produce alcohol,

708
00:30:22,824 --> 00:30:25,476
you then process it a little bit, you then carbonate it,

709
00:30:25,476 --> 00:30:27,567
now you have beer. Right? For us.

710
00:30:28,697 --> 00:30:31,928
Same set of steps, but instead of those yeast

711
00:30:32,749 --> 00:30:34,029
making alcohol,

712
00:30:34,553 --> 00:30:38,464
those microorganisms make some product that we have engineered.

713
00:30:38,604 --> 00:30:43,366
So maybe it's butadiene for synthetic rubber, butadiene rubber.

714
00:30:44,123 --> 00:30:47,785
Okay, well, that yeast then spits out this chemical,

715
00:30:48,486 --> 00:30:52,107
which then we need to take to downstream processing.

716
00:30:52,107 --> 00:30:55,388
So we have a bunch of purification steps,

717
00:30:55,969 --> 00:30:56,389
which

718
00:30:56,981 --> 00:31:01,224
you know, what that looks like are things like centrifuges,

719
00:31:01,825 --> 00:31:04,466
things like filtration systems,

720
00:31:04,927 --> 00:31:09,430
things like spray drying equipment that all help us

721
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:11,831
get from a big mix of

722
00:31:12,472 --> 00:31:15,884
dead cells and water and the product we want and get

723
00:31:15,884 --> 00:31:17,836
that product ultimately out

724
00:31:18,696 --> 00:31:19,877
and out into the world.

725
00:31:20,298 --> 00:31:23,898
But what's unique about our facilities is that we're not making

726
00:31:23,898 --> 00:31:24,949
a single product.

727
00:31:25,972 --> 00:31:30,174
We have the ability to work with our member companies, have

728
00:31:30,174 --> 00:31:34,447
them come in with their technology and use that equipment.

729
00:31:34,647 --> 00:31:38,569
And so it's really us providing a service to the industry

730
00:31:39,050 --> 00:31:39,330
where

731
00:31:39,102 --> 00:31:39,429
Yeah.

732
00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:43,682
they come in and work through these problems, help figure out

733
00:31:43,682 --> 00:31:46,594
how to develop it. And that's part of what makes these

734
00:31:46,594 --> 00:31:49,476
facilities more complicated than

735
00:31:48,968 --> 00:31:49,383
Yeah.

736
00:31:49,782 --> 00:31:54,458
a typical manufacturing facility. And I want to be careful, right?

737
00:31:54,458 --> 00:31:57,549
Anyone who's built a big facility knows they're all complicated.

738
00:31:57,549 --> 00:32:00,080
I'm not trying to underplay. But

739
00:31:59,368 --> 00:31:59,690
Yes.

740
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,881
because these are a hybrid of manufacturing and R&D,

741
00:32:04,317 --> 00:32:04,624
Yeah.

742
00:32:04,522 --> 00:32:06,402
we've got a lot of

743
00:32:07,163 --> 00:32:08,003
opportunity

744
00:32:08,517 --> 00:32:09,037
to

745
00:32:09,503 --> 00:32:10,584
build in

746
00:32:11,344 --> 00:32:15,846
research and development activities that really support this member ecosystem.

747
00:32:16,026 --> 00:32:20,438
And then our big goal is that they manufacture some product

748
00:32:20,438 --> 00:32:21,408
in our facility.

749
00:32:22,226 --> 00:32:25,346
Help get customer validation, bring

750
00:32:25,305 --> 00:32:25,667
Yes.

751
00:32:25,346 --> 00:32:27,037
it to customers, build

752
00:32:26,835 --> 00:32:27,116
Yep.

753
00:32:27,037 --> 00:32:30,350
out the business model, hit it out of the park, and

754
00:32:30,202 --> 00:32:30,495
Yeah.

755
00:32:30,350 --> 00:32:33,432
then either go build their own facility or go to a

756
00:32:33,432 --> 00:32:35,733
large scale contract manufacturer

757
00:32:36,134 --> 00:32:38,545
or right, and then all of a sudden their products on

758
00:32:38,545 --> 00:32:39,766
the market and they're making money.

759
00:32:41,059 --> 00:32:44,692
Yeah. I think of it as like a coworking for chemicals.

760
00:32:44,832 --> 00:32:46,073
So if we have like

761
00:32:46,157 --> 00:32:46,450
Not

762
00:32:46,252 --> 00:32:46,752
yeah.

763
00:32:46,450 --> 00:32:46,775
wrong.

764
00:32:47,873 --> 00:32:51,369
Yeah. And I would imagine the balance is like what do

765
00:32:51,369 --> 00:32:54,691
you bring to the facility and then what do they bring

766
00:32:54,691 --> 00:32:57,454
to it, knowing that like all members will have their own

767
00:32:57,454 --> 00:32:57,954
unique

768
00:32:58,655 --> 00:33:01,775
process equipment, technology, like

769
00:33:02,199 --> 00:33:06,343
need for like security, safety, secrets.

770
00:33:06,723 --> 00:33:08,665
Like a trademark, all that kind of stuff.

771
00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:09,710
Yeah.

772
00:33:10,191 --> 00:33:13,914
You know, our job in all of this is to make

773
00:33:13,914 --> 00:33:16,066
sure we're providing a safe

774
00:33:16,707 --> 00:33:18,048
and secure

775
00:33:18,769 --> 00:33:20,670
environment for them.

776
00:33:21,191 --> 00:33:22,532
You know, none of this

777
00:33:22,953 --> 00:33:25,054
intellectual property is ours.

778
00:33:25,535 --> 00:33:25,988
Yeah.

779
00:33:26,123 --> 00:33:27,104
it's all theirs.

780
00:33:27,188 --> 00:33:27,741
Totally.

781
00:33:27,604 --> 00:33:27,924
And

782
00:33:28,325 --> 00:33:31,297
I think one of the up advantages that we have is

783
00:33:31,297 --> 00:33:34,610
we are a nonprofit public private partnership.

784
00:33:35,364 --> 00:33:38,706
Our success is measured by the industry being successful.

785
00:33:39,028 --> 00:33:39,438
Totally.

786
00:33:39,226 --> 00:33:42,088
And so it is in our interest, you know, yeah, we

787
00:33:42,088 --> 00:33:44,049
have a lot of companies come to us, and a lot

788
00:33:44,049 --> 00:33:48,452
of companies share proprietary information with us on projects and others.

789
00:33:49,272 --> 00:33:52,124
And, you know, we have a proper agreement in place, but

790
00:33:52,124 --> 00:33:55,546
there's also trust, right, within the industry that, hey, we're not

791
00:33:55,546 --> 00:33:58,010
going to be sharing across companies.

792
00:33:58,030 --> 00:34:00,472
This is yours. We want you to be successful.

793
00:34:01,194 --> 00:34:04,965
You know, we'll be there to provide advice and support, particularly

794
00:34:05,034 --> 00:34:08,677
on the security and safety side, which is really important in

795
00:34:08,677 --> 00:34:11,430
these types of facilities. But at the end of the day,

796
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:13,241
it's the company's product.

797
00:34:13,686 --> 00:34:14,627
Yeah.

798
00:34:13,881 --> 00:34:15,082
yeah, totally. That's

799
00:34:16,032 --> 00:34:17,848
that's such a unique model.

800
00:34:18,508 --> 00:34:20,599
I love it. There's nothing out there like that or nothing

801
00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:21,429
that I've seen and

802
00:34:21,870 --> 00:34:25,145
like going through every building in Southern California we see quite

803
00:34:25,145 --> 00:34:27,348
a lot and there's nothing even close, I would say.

804
00:34:28,229 --> 00:34:30,720
Maybe someday there'll be one of these in Southern California, who

805
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:31,051
knows?

806
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,560
Yeah. It is wild to think that you have all these

807
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,346
members before you have the facilities.

808
00:34:37,467 --> 00:34:40,764
So this is just like a new another way that you

809
00:34:40,764 --> 00:34:42,037
can scale your impact.

810
00:34:42,787 --> 00:34:43,078
Yeah.

811
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:43,759
And

812
00:34:43,717 --> 00:34:44,086
Yeah.

813
00:34:43,759 --> 00:34:46,136
we focused on the facilities, but we've done a lot of

814
00:34:46,136 --> 00:34:50,044
other things. So we've you know, in partnership with government and

815
00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:50,585
some other

816
00:34:51,218 --> 00:34:52,689
Philanthropic entities,

817
00:34:53,149 --> 00:34:57,731
BioMADE has helped support investing almost $250 million in

818
00:34:57,751 --> 00:34:58,711
underlying

819
00:34:59,252 --> 00:35:02,353
technology development and workforce development.

820
00:35:02,833 --> 00:35:06,175
And, you know, it's our job effectively to manage that.

821
00:35:06,555 --> 00:35:10,157
But that funding is deployed really to our members and in

822
00:35:10,157 --> 00:35:13,138
support of their work. And so, you know, our job is

823
00:35:13,138 --> 00:35:15,499
that this interface, but that's been a big part of what

824
00:35:15,499 --> 00:35:17,200
we've done over the last five years.

825
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,522
And as you just pointed out, this infrastructure gives us a

826
00:35:20,682 --> 00:35:22,056
huge Opportunity

827
00:35:22,515 --> 00:35:25,879
to be kind of a force multiplier in that impact and

828
00:35:25,879 --> 00:35:27,521
say, hey, we're going to be developing it,

829
00:35:27,961 --> 00:35:31,344
and we've got these assets that you can come use

830
00:35:31,765 --> 00:35:35,338
without having to invest additional capital, without having to go to

831
00:35:35,338 --> 00:35:38,130
Europe or India or China or wherever,

832
00:35:38,571 --> 00:35:41,794
right? Hey, you can come to Iowa and do this thing.

833
00:35:42,314 --> 00:35:44,816
It's a lot more convenient than going to India.

834
00:35:45,578 --> 00:35:48,500
Yeah, I'm so focused on the facilities just being a real

835
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:51,312
estate guy. Like that's what we talk about with everybody and

836
00:35:51,312 --> 00:35:55,954
then like the people, the logistics, those are all super

837
00:35:55,954 --> 00:35:56,565
important.

838
00:35:57,146 --> 00:35:59,838
but we're always focused on like the box, the place, how

839
00:35:59,838 --> 00:36:01,983
that like the challenges that are focused on it.

840
00:36:01,983 --> 00:36:03,995
But you brought it up a couple of different times between

841
00:36:03,995 --> 00:36:07,957
like workforce development and some of the other investments.

842
00:36:08,318 --> 00:36:08,738
So,

843
00:36:09,484 --> 00:36:11,845
If you wouldn't mind expanding on that, like a little just

844
00:36:11,845 --> 00:36:14,245
to understand it a little bit more, 'cause on one hand

845
00:36:14,245 --> 00:36:17,426
I would think like there would be a VC element to

846
00:36:17,426 --> 00:36:17,806
this

847
00:36:18,486 --> 00:36:21,407
somewhere. Like there's got to be if you just think of

848
00:36:21,407 --> 00:36:22,307
like startups

849
00:36:22,808 --> 00:36:24,108
and then you have like

850
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,520
finding like the product market fit in the chemical segment and

851
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,580
then like scaling it and like wanting to see them successful.

852
00:36:32,316 --> 00:36:35,232
so yeah, if you wouldn't mind like workforce development and what

853
00:36:35,232 --> 00:36:36,112
are some of the others?

854
00:36:36,830 --> 00:36:37,202
Like

855
00:36:37,095 --> 00:36:37,495
Yeah.

856
00:36:37,515 --> 00:36:38,512
yeah.

857
00:36:38,517 --> 00:36:41,327
So we work with VCs, we work with the investment community

858
00:36:41,327 --> 00:36:44,955
certainly. You know, the vast majority of our members are venture

859
00:36:44,955 --> 00:36:45,446
backed

860
00:36:45,996 --> 00:36:46,322
Yeah.

861
00:36:46,096 --> 00:36:46,747
companies

862
00:36:46,356 --> 00:36:46,858
Totally.

863
00:36:46,747 --> 00:36:49,115
and so that already comes in.

864
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:51,152
But you know, this is the public

865
00:36:51,733 --> 00:36:53,255
private partnership part of it.

866
00:36:53,671 --> 00:36:56,983
We have an opportunity to work with the federal government and

867
00:36:56,983 --> 00:37:00,814
see investments to support certain federal needs.

868
00:37:00,814 --> 00:37:02,875
And so, you know, you mentioned at the top that we're

869
00:37:02,875 --> 00:37:05,697
a Department of Defense catalyzed institute.

870
00:37:06,137 --> 00:37:10,615
you know, they have certain unique needs that can be facilitated

871
00:37:10,615 --> 00:37:14,647
through industrial biomanufacturing. And so we work a lot with them

872
00:37:14,677 --> 00:37:16,228
to help connect

873
00:37:16,668 --> 00:37:21,390
really those government needs with government dollars, make those investments

874
00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:26,065
into companies. And we Facilitate a lot of that for government.

875
00:37:26,706 --> 00:37:28,886
And at the same time, you brought up workforce.

876
00:37:28,906 --> 00:37:33,212
We have an amazing workforce development team that works with

877
00:37:33,291 --> 00:37:36,122
principally community colleges across the country

878
00:37:36,742 --> 00:37:40,844
to develop the curriculum, the workforce training, the trade

879
00:37:40,864 --> 00:37:41,544
needs,

880
00:37:42,024 --> 00:37:42,604
etc. for

881
00:37:43,333 --> 00:37:46,810
the growth of this industry, because if you can't, right, we

882
00:37:46,810 --> 00:37:49,714
can see some successful growth, but if we're not hiring if

883
00:37:49,714 --> 00:37:52,568
there the trained technicians aren't available to

884
00:37:53,088 --> 00:37:56,813
be on the manufacturing floor, well then we've got a problem.

885
00:37:57,113 --> 00:37:59,951
And so we have a workforce team that works on

886
00:38:00,853 --> 00:38:02,024
that aspect as well.

887
00:38:02,436 --> 00:38:05,765
I feel like industrial engineering is one that's like getting a

888
00:38:05,765 --> 00:38:09,178
like a resurgence of like people doing that in college and

889
00:38:09,178 --> 00:38:11,220
there being like a more need for those graduates.

890
00:38:11,220 --> 00:38:14,354
So I'm sure there's a chemical version of this as well

891
00:38:14,694 --> 00:38:17,321
and that those are all related to some extent.

892
00:38:18,218 --> 00:38:21,988
Yeah. You know, you university and I know this from personal

893
00:38:21,988 --> 00:38:26,382
experience, like university chemistry, biology, chemical engineering,

894
00:38:26,382 --> 00:38:30,396
bioengineering programs are very research and development focused.

895
00:38:30,956 --> 00:38:34,019
And those aren't the types of the those aren't the types

896
00:38:34,019 --> 00:38:38,223
of people who end up on the manufacturing floor as technicians.

897
00:38:38,698 --> 00:38:38,987
Yes.

898
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:43,382
And so that's why we've had a very deliberate focus at

899
00:38:43,382 --> 00:38:47,593
BioMADE on community colleges and K through 12

900
00:38:47,593 --> 00:38:48,324
education

901
00:38:48,804 --> 00:38:52,886
to say, hey, like there are really good

902
00:38:53,207 --> 00:38:55,628
manufacturing technician jobs

903
00:38:56,188 --> 00:38:59,119
that you can get, you know, coming out of high school,

904
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:03,711
do an apprenticeship at a community college that is tied up

905
00:39:03,992 --> 00:39:05,732
with a local company.

906
00:39:06,333 --> 00:39:09,324
And, you know, there are a couple of examples of pipeline.

907
00:39:09,454 --> 00:39:12,937
Where, you know, if you get into this community college program,

908
00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:15,119
you're essentially guaranteed a job

909
00:39:15,980 --> 00:39:18,982
at this manufacturer in your community.

910
00:39:19,202 --> 00:39:21,334
And what we're trying to do is say, okay, like that

911
00:39:21,334 --> 00:39:22,885
works in a couple places.

912
00:39:23,546 --> 00:39:26,248
Since we have a national focus, like how do we now

913
00:39:26,248 --> 00:39:27,429
replicate that

914
00:39:28,110 --> 00:39:30,993
two times, five times, ten times over so

915
00:39:30,963 --> 00:39:31,259
Yeah.

916
00:39:30,993 --> 00:39:34,275
that there's opportunities for a much larger number of people all

917
00:39:34,275 --> 00:39:34,975
over the country?

918
00:39:36,010 --> 00:39:38,411
Yeah, that's you're gonna need some more people.

919
00:39:39,163 --> 00:39:40,400
Gonna need more people. Yeah.

920
00:39:40,380 --> 00:39:44,425
Biz busy man. In the if that is in theme of

921
00:39:44,425 --> 00:39:47,871
awareness and raising awareness, I thought a fun one would be

922
00:39:47,871 --> 00:39:49,172
to learn more of like

923
00:39:49,612 --> 00:39:54,054
underrated raw materials in this biomanufacturing space, things that people

924
00:39:54,054 --> 00:39:58,327
wouldn't like imagine that are like unsung heroes

925
00:39:58,627 --> 00:40:00,258
or ones that are like on a

926
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:04,954
growth trajectory. that like perhaps most people wouldn't know.

927
00:40:05,198 --> 00:40:08,383
any come to mind, I imagine you see this like close

928
00:40:08,383 --> 00:40:09,368
up from what's

929
00:40:10,178 --> 00:40:12,792
scaling or finding success or what you're getting the most phone

930
00:40:12,792 --> 00:40:15,006
calls for or the people that are like most interested in

931
00:40:15,006 --> 00:40:15,567
your space.

932
00:40:16,246 --> 00:40:18,407
Yeah. So the raw materials one's interesting.

933
00:40:18,407 --> 00:40:22,038
So today, the vast majority of the raw materials that go

934
00:40:22,038 --> 00:40:23,947
into biomanufacturing are corn dextrose.

935
00:40:24,724 --> 00:40:28,175
the good news is we grow a ton of corn in

936
00:40:28,175 --> 00:40:28,905
the US.

937
00:40:29,278 --> 00:40:29,606
Yes.

938
00:40:29,995 --> 00:40:31,693
and this is a great opportunity.

939
00:40:31,773 --> 00:40:34,247
but there are others, right? So sugar beets

940
00:40:35,014 --> 00:40:36,768
are a good feedstock.

941
00:40:37,348 --> 00:40:38,328
Switchgrass,

942
00:40:38,737 --> 00:40:41,468
which sort of in the Mid Atlantic area is a feedstock.

943
00:40:42,142 --> 00:40:44,974
But then to your kind of point about novel and interesting

944
00:40:44,974 --> 00:40:48,307
feedstocks, some of the ones that I am just personally the

945
00:40:48,307 --> 00:40:50,809
most interested in are waste feedstocks.

946
00:40:51,317 --> 00:40:51,617
Yes.

947
00:40:51,690 --> 00:40:55,368
So how can we use, we actually had a BioMADE project

948
00:40:55,368 --> 00:40:57,610
on this four ish years ago

949
00:40:58,150 --> 00:41:02,758
where the feedstock was dairy whey

950
00:41:02,876 --> 00:41:03,416
from

951
00:41:03,831 --> 00:41:04,192
from

952
00:41:04,167 --> 00:41:04,619
Whey,

953
00:41:04,192 --> 00:41:04,582
farms.

954
00:41:04,619 --> 00:41:06,287
like oh yeah, you got

955
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:07,101
you

956
00:41:06,889 --> 00:41:07,109
Like

957
00:41:07,101 --> 00:41:07,312
gotta

958
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:07,789
whey protein,

959
00:41:07,312 --> 00:41:07,975
get your protein

960
00:41:07,789 --> 00:41:08,191
yes.

961
00:41:07,975 --> 00:41:08,316
in there.

962
00:41:09,078 --> 00:41:12,283
right. So, you know, when you tr when a dairy

963
00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:13,902
is operating,

964
00:41:14,743 --> 00:41:19,459
they have this highly acidic whey mixture that

965
00:41:19,459 --> 00:41:22,432
most dairies actually have to pay to get

966
00:41:22,917 --> 00:41:27,560
Taken away and then neutralized. Well, if we can instead

967
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,302
make that a feedstock for biomanufacturing for those dairy farmers,

968
00:41:32,763 --> 00:41:35,584
now all of a sudden something that was a cost center for

969
00:41:35,584 --> 00:41:37,565
them, hey, I gotta pay to get rid of this,

970
00:41:38,297 --> 00:41:38,817
now

971
00:41:39,526 --> 00:41:40,827
they've gotta be able

972
00:41:41,589 --> 00:41:45,214
Now they've got an opportunity to bring in, you know, small

973
00:41:45,214 --> 00:41:48,783
amounts of revenue, even if they gave it away for free,

974
00:41:48,783 --> 00:41:51,427
right? All of a sudden something that cost them now doesn't

975
00:41:51,427 --> 00:41:52,849
cost them anymore. And

976
00:41:52,818 --> 00:41:53,168
Yeah.

977
00:41:52,849 --> 00:41:55,212
so those examples become super interesting.

978
00:41:56,476 --> 00:42:00,084
Yeah, that's wild. And then self sustaining too to some extent.

979
00:42:00,345 --> 00:42:02,665
Like yeah, if they don't even have to get rid of

980
00:42:02,665 --> 00:42:03,620
it at all the better.

981
00:42:04,449 --> 00:42:05,006
Exactly.

982
00:42:05,738 --> 00:42:09,497
and then that if that's the raw material side of it,

983
00:42:09,497 --> 00:42:13,032
then the same question but for like everyday products, if you

984
00:42:13,032 --> 00:42:15,133
just think of like what are the some of the cool

985
00:42:15,133 --> 00:42:18,526
things that are being made through some of these raw materials

986
00:42:18,526 --> 00:42:20,303
that people might be unaware of.

987
00:42:21,482 --> 00:42:23,202
Yeah. So, you know,

988
00:42:23,884 --> 00:42:26,995
the product question is always a hard one because we're talking

989
00:42:26,995 --> 00:42:29,695
about underlying chemicals which make everything.

990
00:42:29,695 --> 00:42:30,696
So I can just

991
00:42:30,577 --> 00:42:30,870
Yeah.

992
00:42:30,696 --> 00:42:33,076
say everything. That's not what I'm gonna do to you, but

993
00:42:33,479 --> 00:42:33,789
Yes.

994
00:42:34,157 --> 00:42:35,397
but that's part of the challenge.

995
00:42:35,517 --> 00:42:39,158
So, you know, where this industry's been particularly successful

996
00:42:39,798 --> 00:42:41,819
are in a lot of the

997
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:44,820
chemical products that are in

998
00:42:45,809 --> 00:42:46,589
cosmetics.

999
00:42:47,651 --> 00:42:47,966
Okay.

1000
00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:48,610
So

1001
00:42:49,698 --> 00:42:53,220
Right, like the flavors, fragrances, cosmetics,

1002
00:42:53,781 --> 00:42:55,342
personal care industry,

1003
00:42:56,016 --> 00:42:59,267
there are there's a wide variety of products that go into

1004
00:42:59,267 --> 00:43:01,849
those. And most or many of those products

1005
00:43:02,389 --> 00:43:04,330
are traditionally

1006
00:43:04,771 --> 00:43:09,344
bioderived anyway, right? Just go look on the shelf and see

1007
00:43:09,344 --> 00:43:12,116
what the marketing material looks like, right?

1008
00:43:12,116 --> 00:43:15,939
It's natural, it comes from this fish or this whatever.

1009
00:43:16,636 --> 00:43:20,148
Well, you know, one, there are sustainability challenges in some of

1010
00:43:20,148 --> 00:43:23,963
those cases. So, you know, if we're currently getting a product

1011
00:43:23,963 --> 00:43:27,405
from an endangered species and we can manufacture the same thing

1012
00:43:27,405 --> 00:43:31,156
on our own, well, hey, like that's that has a marketable

1013
00:43:31,557 --> 00:43:33,778
effect in the cosmetics industry.

1014
00:43:34,307 --> 00:43:34,548
Hm.

1015
00:43:34,498 --> 00:43:37,292
I raised butadiene rubber as an example.

1016
00:43:37,388 --> 00:43:38,907
that's certainly one of them.

1017
00:43:39,387 --> 00:43:42,405
Natural rubber is another one that we're talking about.

1018
00:43:43,486 --> 00:43:44,847
manufacturing opportunities.

1019
00:43:45,347 --> 00:43:50,085
The natural rubber supply chain currently exists where we import only

1020
00:43:50,085 --> 00:43:52,947
from Southeast Asia for a variety of reasons.

1021
00:43:53,267 --> 00:43:54,048
That's one

1022
00:43:54,521 --> 00:43:55,992
that we can bring onshore.

1023
00:43:56,682 --> 00:43:57,824
just a few examples.

1024
00:43:58,355 --> 00:44:01,741
Yeah. I've been in a couple of cosmetic manufacturing warehouses to

1025
00:44:01,741 --> 00:44:04,336
see what they have going on and see like they do

1026
00:44:04,336 --> 00:44:05,557
have the tanks in there

1027
00:44:05,977 --> 00:44:09,232
and then see them like testing their product, which is kind

1028
00:44:09,232 --> 00:44:11,623
of interesting too, to figure out like, okay, how do we

1029
00:44:11,623 --> 00:44:15,326
know it's the right consistency, color, it has like the desired

1030
00:44:15,326 --> 00:44:15,796
effect.

1031
00:44:16,523 --> 00:44:19,245
Yeah. But that's a great example to just build on that.

1032
00:44:19,245 --> 00:44:22,588
That's a great example of like the customers

1033
00:44:23,489 --> 00:44:25,321
of our members, right?

1034
00:44:25,207 --> 00:44:25,576
Yeah.

1035
00:44:25,321 --> 00:44:27,693
Our members are manufacturing the chemicals,

1036
00:44:28,133 --> 00:44:32,576
those cosmetics formulators, they are buying all of those individual

1037
00:44:32,576 --> 00:44:35,860
chemicals, formulating them into then the consumer product.

1038
00:44:35,860 --> 00:44:38,373
So that's exactly what we're what we focus on.

1039
00:44:38,863 --> 00:44:42,907
Yeah, that's the hard part to communicate is like you manufacture

1040
00:44:42,907 --> 00:44:46,251
for the supplier for the people that are the manufacturer of

1041
00:44:46,251 --> 00:44:49,630
the everyday product and like that's perhaps less glamorous or harder

1042
00:44:49,630 --> 00:44:52,433
for people to understand if they're not already familiar.

1043
00:44:52,937 --> 00:44:56,610
yeah, it's certainly less glamorous and it is on the list

1044
00:44:56,651 --> 00:44:56,971
of

1045
00:44:58,012 --> 00:45:01,507
things most people don't think about until it becomes a problem

1046
00:45:01,507 --> 00:45:02,117
in their life.

1047
00:45:02,733 --> 00:45:03,094
Yes.

1048
00:45:03,597 --> 00:45:05,626
Oh totally. Wait a second.

1049
00:45:06,089 --> 00:45:07,906
We're short on something. What happened?

1050
00:45:08,655 --> 00:45:09,006
Right.

1051
00:45:10,233 --> 00:45:10,835
Exactly.

1052
00:45:11,385 --> 00:45:14,177
the we are hitting our time soon, Doug.

1053
00:45:14,177 --> 00:45:16,526
I'm sensitive to your schedule, but the only thing I didn't

1054
00:45:16,526 --> 00:45:19,809
ask about was either what cities could do to attract folks

1055
00:45:19,809 --> 00:45:21,591
like yourself in operations like this.

1056
00:45:21,658 --> 00:45:23,990
but perhaps what I feel like is a little more fun

1057
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:26,372
and interesting I didn't ask was about some of the hires

1058
00:45:26,372 --> 00:45:28,774
that you hired from Cargill and NatureWorks.

1059
00:45:29,335 --> 00:45:32,420
And I would think that's probably the most interesting because that's

1060
00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:33,751
bringing in new skills

1061
00:45:34,515 --> 00:45:38,152
from people who have worked on big facilities and in like

1062
00:45:38,152 --> 00:45:40,764
a sophisticated work environments that you can bring to the table

1063
00:45:40,764 --> 00:45:43,247
that can help you and that can help your members and

1064
00:45:43,247 --> 00:45:45,879
that can help like accelerate this positive impact.

1065
00:45:46,059 --> 00:45:48,817
So I'd love maybe that is the last one to ask

1066
00:45:48,817 --> 00:45:50,108
you about just to learn more about.

1067
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,352
Yeah, so we're you know, I mentioned it a few times

1068
00:45:53,352 --> 00:45:55,192
in this conversation. We have an amazing team.

1069
00:45:56,172 --> 00:46:00,816
And, you know, we hire when we're hiring, we're looking

1070
00:46:00,816 --> 00:46:02,226
for people who have

1071
00:46:02,942 --> 00:46:05,582
quite a diverse array of experience

1072
00:46:05,982 --> 00:46:09,954
that allows us to get the job done quickly and safely.

1073
00:46:10,494 --> 00:46:14,415
And so folks from Cargill and NatureWorks and some of the

1074
00:46:14,415 --> 00:46:16,135
largest companies in the industry

1075
00:46:16,681 --> 00:46:17,281
have been

1076
00:46:17,234 --> 00:46:17,674
Cargill

1077
00:46:17,281 --> 00:46:17,881
incredible.

1078
00:46:17,674 --> 00:46:21,287
never moves. I'm always like, Hey, so if you need another

1079
00:46:21,287 --> 00:46:23,891
plant or a bigger one or whatever and it's like when

1080
00:46:23,891 --> 00:46:26,376
you see the all the infrastructure in place, you're like, I've

1081
00:46:26,376 --> 00:46:27,818
never seen one of theirs move.

1082
00:46:27,978 --> 00:46:30,521
They set 'em up and to your point like that infrastructure is

1083
00:46:30,521 --> 00:46:32,683
meant to be there and be in service.

1084
00:46:33,262 --> 00:46:36,219
Yeah, and so you know I so you know, getting those

1085
00:46:36,219 --> 00:46:38,638
folks on our team has been just incredible, right?

1086
00:46:38,638 --> 00:46:41,511
To make sure we we're doing these product projects right

1087
00:46:42,084 --> 00:46:44,125
and bring just incredible expertise, right?

1088
00:46:44,125 --> 00:46:48,567
And that married with government experience, married with nonprofit experience,

1089
00:46:48,567 --> 00:46:52,349
married with the technical experience, just give us a really dynamic

1090
00:46:52,349 --> 00:46:55,370
team to work with. But I'm also gonna sneak in kind

1091
00:46:55,370 --> 00:46:56,911
of an answer to your question about

1092
00:46:57,771 --> 00:47:02,003
the local, like how can local right, because the truth is,

1093
00:47:02,003 --> 00:47:04,988
you know, once we build this facility we're Building in Minnesota,

1094
00:47:05,008 --> 00:47:07,269
you can't move it. Right. Once it's in there,

1095
00:47:07,870 --> 00:47:10,532
it is bolted to the ground and bolted together.

1096
00:47:10,752 --> 00:47:13,744
And it is more cost effective to just start over than

1097
00:47:13,744 --> 00:47:14,815
it is to try to move it.

1098
00:47:15,076 --> 00:47:15,376
These

1099
00:47:15,317 --> 00:47:15,458
Hundred

1100
00:47:15,376 --> 00:47:15,656
things

1101
00:47:15,458 --> 00:47:15,840
percent.

1102
00:47:15,656 --> 00:47:16,236
don't move.

1103
00:47:16,297 --> 00:47:16,897
Yeah.

1104
00:47:17,257 --> 00:47:17,677
So,

1105
00:47:18,158 --> 00:47:22,121
you know, the biggest thing, by far the most important thing

1106
00:47:22,822 --> 00:47:24,707
that we look for in

1107
00:47:25,223 --> 00:47:28,526
deciding a site for BioMADE in one of these facilities, is

1108
00:47:28,526 --> 00:47:28,746
a

1109
00:47:29,687 --> 00:47:31,288
local coalition.

1110
00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:33,010
That is going

1111
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:36,431
to build into their

1112
00:47:37,012 --> 00:47:39,735
culture for decades to come,

1113
00:47:40,915 --> 00:47:45,286
the development of this industry. Because these things don't move and

1114
00:47:45,286 --> 00:47:49,798
they're very large investments. And it is not our job to

1115
00:47:49,798 --> 00:47:52,018
go and say, hey,

1116
00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:56,380
City X, you should care about this for the next 30

1117
00:47:56,380 --> 00:47:56,780
years.

1118
00:47:57,470 --> 00:47:59,792
If they don't already have it, if they're not bringing it

1119
00:47:59,792 --> 00:48:02,144
forward, we're never gonna make them.

1120
00:48:02,304 --> 00:48:05,596
And so the thing that the San Francisco Bay Area,

1121
00:48:05,596 --> 00:48:08,489
the Twin Cities area,

1122
00:48:09,090 --> 00:48:12,192
and Boone, Iowa have in common

1123
00:48:12,893 --> 00:48:13,273
is

1124
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:16,596
a cohort of people locally.

1125
00:48:17,056 --> 00:48:21,359
that are really committed to driving this industry forward,

1126
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:23,140
leveraging these assets.

1127
00:48:23,561 --> 00:48:26,512
And that's what gives me confidence that when we make these

1128
00:48:26,512 --> 00:48:30,355
large investments with taxpayer dollars, that they're gonna withstand the test

1129
00:48:30,355 --> 00:48:32,602
of time and we're gonna be able to do something

1130
00:48:33,202 --> 00:48:34,043
really important.

1131
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,149
Yeah. That's a good point. And I would totally imagine there's

1132
00:48:38,149 --> 00:48:42,498
clusters. And so just knowing your geography and knowing like your

1133
00:48:42,701 --> 00:48:45,637
industry and knowing where all those clusters are and like go

1134
00:48:45,637 --> 00:48:46,859
where the gravity is.

1135
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:49,591
Yeah. And it can be developed.

1136
00:48:49,591 --> 00:48:52,486
That's my message to folks. You know, just because you don't

1137
00:48:52,486 --> 00:48:54,909
have it today doesn't mean you can't develop it.

1138
00:48:54,909 --> 00:48:56,931
And it doesn't take a decade to develop it.

1139
00:48:57,412 --> 00:49:01,927
But, you know, giving us that confidence is really important for

1140
00:49:01,927 --> 00:49:04,285
us to pay more attention to your location.

1141
00:49:04,962 --> 00:49:07,281
Yeah, what would be a couple that might be on your

1142
00:49:07,281 --> 00:49:07,704
radar?

1143
00:49:08,425 --> 00:49:10,206
so you we don't really talk about that.

1144
00:49:10,407 --> 00:49:13,962
but the what I can say is that a couple years

1145
00:49:13,962 --> 00:49:18,040
ago we put out an announcement of a down select of

1146
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,171
six states that we were interested in.

1147
00:49:20,552 --> 00:49:24,500
that included Hawaii, California,

1148
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:28,770
Iowa, Indiana, North Carolina, and

1149
00:49:28,770 --> 00:49:29,320
Georgia.

1150
00:49:30,153 --> 00:49:30,446
Okay.

1151
00:49:31,049 --> 00:49:34,011
And what you now can see, and Minnesota had already been

1152
00:49:34,011 --> 00:49:36,862
selected at the time that the time that had happened, what

1153
00:49:36,862 --> 00:49:39,233
you can see is that the additional two sites that we

1154
00:49:39,233 --> 00:49:40,643
put in place are

1155
00:49:40,534 --> 00:49:40,856
Yes.

1156
00:49:40,643 --> 00:49:40,773
in

1157
00:49:41,459 --> 00:49:43,139
two of those six locations.

1158
00:49:43,604 --> 00:49:43,911
Yes.

1159
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,420
we are not limiting ourselves though to only looking at those

1160
00:49:47,420 --> 00:49:50,251
locations. That work was done quite a few years ago now,

1161
00:49:50,251 --> 00:49:53,945
and so we're undertaking an assessment as we go for where

1162
00:49:53,945 --> 00:49:54,425
else to be.

1163
00:49:55,212 --> 00:49:58,447
Yeah, awesome. I love it. Yeah, you gotta keep adjusting.

1164
00:49:59,050 --> 00:50:00,092
Go where the growth is.

1165
00:50:00,633 --> 00:50:01,023
Indeed.

1166
00:50:02,299 --> 00:50:03,710
Well Doug, that's all I got.

1167
00:50:03,890 --> 00:50:08,005
I I'm sure you've got more, but I appreciate you taking

1168
00:50:08,005 --> 00:50:10,200
the time. It's industry I knew was

1169
00:50:10,730 --> 00:50:13,372
going to be a good one to delve into, but

1170
00:50:14,023 --> 00:50:16,215
we need more of these and you could imagine in different

1171
00:50:16,215 --> 00:50:20,855
industries and like now's a great time for entrepreneurship to blossom.

1172
00:50:21,135 --> 00:50:23,697
So like I appreciate the work you're doing out there and

1173
00:50:23,697 --> 00:50:26,772
it's awesome to set up the infrastructure and like provide the

1174
00:50:26,772 --> 00:50:27,373
capital.

1175
00:50:27,869 --> 00:50:30,733
And like help give people us a leg up on getting

1176
00:50:30,733 --> 00:50:32,759
these things off the ground and getting to like

1177
00:50:33,183 --> 00:50:35,476
actual like viable industry.

1178
00:50:36,669 --> 00:50:39,237
Yeah, we're really excited and Justin, this has been a great

1179
00:50:39,237 --> 00:50:42,965
conversation and appreciate your time and questions and the dialogue.

1180
00:50:43,598 --> 00:50:43,948
Yes.

1181
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:47,491
Super. I'll put everything in the show notes and I'll catch

1182
00:50:47,491 --> 00:50:48,233
up with you later.

1183
00:50:48,997 --> 00:50:49,440
Sounds great.