1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,370 for so long we've seen distribution centers that are loading semi-trailers, 2 00:00:05,370 --> 00:00:09,610 20, 40-foot trailers, and they're needing dock doors. And now we need to 3 00:00:09,610 --> 00:00:13,750 be more agile. We need to be loading vans and box trucks and things like that. 4 00:00:15,253 --> 00:00:18,713 Welcome, everybody. Another episode of Industrial Insights Podcast. I have 5 00:00:18,713 --> 00:00:22,933 Patrick Van Hull with me, who is a teacher that I had at the University 6 00:00:22,933 --> 00:00:25,693 of Arkansas during my Master's of Supply Chain program. 7 00:00:25,792 --> 00:00:27,745 you're not a full-time teacher that's 8 00:00:27,745 --> 00:00:30,725 been teaching your whole life. You came to us from industry. 9 00:00:31,265 --> 00:00:35,525 That's part I'd love to explore more of just like your career history beforehand 10 00:00:35,525 --> 00:00:39,485 to connect it with our audience and for me to get to know you a little better. 11 00:00:39,552 --> 00:00:43,392 I mean, the funny part to me is that I didn't know what a supply chain was when I 12 00:00:43,392 --> 00:00:47,512 went to undergrad. So I was an industrial engineering major at the University 13 00:00:47,512 --> 00:00:51,652 of Michigan, did a couple internships, and then I was offered the chance to go work 14 00:00:51,652 --> 00:00:56,052 at Dell full time. 22 years old, moving to Austin, Texas, sounded like a good idea. 15 00:00:56,272 --> 00:01:01,432 The job was kind of secondary, almost. I'm going to Austin. 16 00:01:01,472 --> 00:01:07,052 Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so so really the progression was 17 00:01:07,052 --> 00:01:11,912 just being able to see, especially at that point in time, Dell is still one of the 18 00:01:11,912 --> 00:01:16,312 leading supply chains, the negative cash conversion cycles and the way that they 19 00:01:16,312 --> 00:01:20,732 integrated the financial aspects of supply chain with the physical manufacturing. 20 00:01:21,272 --> 00:01:27,812 being in the factory, knowing process engineering, plant layouts, kind of 21 00:01:27,812 --> 00:01:31,452 relating to the work that you do as well, is just being able to put the 22 00:01:31,452 --> 00:01:36,112 building in the process in the place to be able to deliver on the business goals. 23 00:01:36,112 --> 00:01:38,952 And so that's kind of where my career started. And 24 00:01:38,952 --> 00:01:42,312 then it really became a matter of transferable skills. 25 00:01:42,332 --> 00:01:45,572 And so I went from there. I actually did a stint in commercial real 26 00:01:45,572 --> 00:01:50,112 estate for a period of time. That's a longer story than a single podcast. Yeah. 27 00:01:50,412 --> 00:01:56,532 But then I transferred those skills into industrial mining. I worked for Rio Tinto 28 00:01:56,532 --> 00:02:01,892 Minerals, which is the industrial minerals branch of, or then was the industrial 29 00:02:01,892 --> 00:02:07,612 minerals branch of global miner Rio Tinto. I worked for Apple and supply demand 30 00:02:07,612 --> 00:02:11,432 management, and I was responsible for inventory management at CVS Health. 31 00:02:11,432 --> 00:02:16,792 So as a practitioner, saw production facilities, saw giant 32 00:02:16,792 --> 00:02:22,232 open pit mine sites, saw vessels in the port of Los Angeles, saw store shelves. 33 00:02:22,332 --> 00:02:26,692 And really, that took me into the place of being able to be an executive advisor 34 00:02:26,692 --> 00:02:30,692 and an industry analyst. And I worked for a company called SCM World, which was 35 00:02:30,692 --> 00:02:34,732 eventually purchased by Gartner. And it was at Gartner where I became affiliated 36 00:02:34,732 --> 00:02:40,072 with Brian Johnson, who's very prominent at the University of Arkansas's supply 37 00:02:40,072 --> 00:02:44,492 chain management program. Brian brought me into the program when I was working in 38 00:02:44,492 --> 00:02:49,432 supply chain technology. And so being able to bring those different experiences, 39 00:02:49,532 --> 00:02:54,572 being able to connect the dots, to think about supply chain education, not just 40 00:02:54,572 --> 00:02:58,792 from the here's what the formula says, here's what the graphic looks like, but 41 00:02:58,792 --> 00:03:04,352 how do we start to apply things that we're learning and start to build off of those. 42 00:03:04,352 --> 00:03:09,912 And now I work for Salesforce now and in agentic operations consulting roles, which 43 00:03:09,912 --> 00:03:14,072 is wonderful just thinking about the influx of technology and the way that we 44 00:03:14,072 --> 00:03:19,352 can start to advance uses of AI and some of those work processes that are really 45 00:03:19,352 --> 00:03:23,612 burdensome, some of the things that I've seen in my career. So there's a whole lot 46 00:03:23,612 --> 00:03:29,232 in there, but it really just, if I had to explain any one thing that matters 47 00:03:29,232 --> 00:03:33,152 most to me is that supply chains indelibly shape the human experience. So 48 00:03:33,152 --> 00:03:38,752 every possible way that we can look at it, there's value to be had and experiences 49 00:03:38,752 --> 00:03:42,772 to be shared along the way. So that's really what took me into the program and 50 00:03:42,772 --> 00:03:48,092 certainly what keeps me engaged day to day. oh yeah you must be interested 51 00:03:48,092 --> 00:03:53,372 to see what travis is doing with his Atoms company in the mining industry and trying 52 00:03:53,372 --> 00:03:58,178 to bring robotics into mining and own all of that have you followed that a little 53 00:03:58,178 --> 00:04:01,745 bit i've seen the headlines i've read about it briefly and I would 54 00:04:01,745 --> 00:04:06,705 say that the thing that most people don't realize is how close they are to mining. 55 00:04:07,105 --> 00:04:12,145 That's one of the biggest pieces that blew my mind is that one of our 56 00:04:12,145 --> 00:04:18,245 customers at Rio Tinto was a major glass manufacturer. And we saw a big influx of 57 00:04:18,245 --> 00:04:24,525 demand from them at one point, but didn't understand why. What we eventually found 58 00:04:24,525 --> 00:04:29,745 out is that that company was supplying products to Apple for iPhone screens. 59 00:04:29,745 --> 00:04:35,885 okay this was pre-iphone but literally a hole in the ground to an iphone screen in 60 00:04:35,885 --> 00:04:40,645 two tiers of the supply chain so you went from apple to the glass manufacturer to 61 00:04:40,645 --> 00:04:47,585 us yep and all of a sudden it became relevant from that if there was a shortage 62 00:04:47,585 --> 00:04:51,305 of glass because we couldn't provide product we were starting to impact the 63 00:04:51,305 --> 00:04:54,425 availability of a product that was globally known and that 64 00:04:54,425 --> 00:04:59,345 was fascinating to me is just to see the linkage that existed in supply chain yeah 65 00:04:59,345 --> 00:05:04,285 and if we touch on your experience at dell that's a hell of a place to have started 66 00:05:04,285 --> 00:05:09,145 and it's pretty cool to see them now like continuing to grow and to see what their 67 00:05:09,145 --> 00:05:13,525 next evolution is and i was just learning about the uh or reading about their 68 00:05:13,525 --> 00:05:19,305 cash flow position and like how that's helping them and um uh it's cool to see 69 00:05:19,305 --> 00:05:25,705 industrial engineer. I have a nephew that is in that program. His is in Wisconsin. 70 00:05:26,445 --> 00:05:30,385 And industrial engineering, I feel like, is having a second boom 71 00:05:30,385 --> 00:05:36,505 or is like come back into favor, perhaps, or maybe it's just more on my radar. But 72 00:05:36,505 --> 00:05:41,925 it's interesting to see people focus on that in college and then see what do those 73 00:05:41,925 --> 00:05:46,625 jobs look like today and how might they be different from when you went through, 74 00:05:46,685 --> 00:05:50,945 or are they that much different? And I have to imagine that that has evolved. 75 00:05:50,945 --> 00:05:55,645 And that's exciting times for industrial engineers to be entering the workforce. 76 00:05:55,905 --> 00:05:59,125 It is. And it's one of those things too. 77 00:05:59,125 --> 00:06:03,485 You talk about AI taking jobs and everybody wants to come up with their 78 00:06:03,485 --> 00:06:08,145 anecdotes that say ATMs didn't take away bank teller jobs and things like that. 79 00:06:08,145 --> 00:06:12,205 But what it's creating is this opportunity for industrial engineers and 80 00:06:12,205 --> 00:06:17,885 others to really understand the processes, to understand how work gets done, 81 00:06:17,885 --> 00:06:22,165 and then being able to translate that into something that can be automated and being 82 00:06:22,165 --> 00:06:26,105 able to work through that to say what needs to be a human decision, what gets 83 00:06:26,105 --> 00:06:30,325 escalated unnecessarily, what is manual but doesn't have to be. 84 00:06:30,445 --> 00:06:35,765 And so the education becomes less so about how do you map from A to 85 00:06:35,765 --> 00:06:40,305 B to C, but what are we trying to achieve? What are the inputs? What are the outputs? 86 00:06:40,305 --> 00:06:44,085 And how can we develop something that's going to be efficient and create value. 87 00:06:44,225 --> 00:06:48,725 And it's opening up whole new levels of work that's being done. And so an 88 00:06:48,725 --> 00:06:53,865 industrial engineer from 30 years ago that was focused on time studies, yeah, that's 89 00:06:53,865 --> 00:06:58,285 probably not so exciting anymore. But an industrial engineer who's looking at how 90 00:06:58,285 --> 00:07:02,225 do we create industrial processes that can blend human critical 91 00:07:02,225 --> 00:07:08,865 thinking with AI automation and how can that elevate the overall level of work? 92 00:07:08,865 --> 00:07:12,905 That's a really exciting proposition. Yeah, they've got to be in high demand. 93 00:07:12,905 --> 00:07:16,665 I would think that's probably one of the best places you could position yourself if 94 00:07:16,665 --> 00:07:20,525 kids are asking like, where should I go? Or what is something you know will be 95 00:07:20,525 --> 00:07:25,625 increasingly valuable over time in our present stretch of time? 96 00:07:25,865 --> 00:07:31,865 Yeah, and for me, I was nowhere near smart enough or inclined enough to be a computer 97 00:07:31,865 --> 00:07:36,185 science major or mechanical engineer or any of those kinds of things. And 98 00:07:36,185 --> 00:07:40,465 so it was always the puzzle of trying to fit together those pieces. And that's the 99 00:07:40,465 --> 00:07:45,205 fascinating part for me is what's the way that we can always be trying to figure out 100 00:07:45,205 --> 00:07:49,525 what piece fits where and what about those pieces that don't seem like they fit? 101 00:07:49,605 --> 00:07:53,625 How can we mold them into something that connects to something else? Yeah. 102 00:07:53,825 --> 00:07:59,125 And then your CVS experience. I think there's another teacher that has some CVS 103 00:07:59,125 --> 00:08:05,545 experience, if I'm not mistaken, in the program. And then health care and having 104 00:08:05,545 --> 00:08:10,485 products. like as i think of my experience in industrial real estate like needing 105 00:08:10,485 --> 00:08:17,245 to hold inventory having to have inventory be omni-channel and to be able to deliver 106 00:08:17,245 --> 00:08:21,525 and delivery times and service levels and all of that i would think that's probably 107 00:08:21,525 --> 00:08:25,345 a dynamic place to work right now that is seeing the health care industry boom 108 00:08:25,345 --> 00:08:29,325 and that's another one where like they'll continue continue to evolve they 109 00:08:29,325 --> 00:08:33,545 have huge footprints all over southern california much less across the country 110 00:08:33,545 --> 00:08:40,145 yeah Yeah, the Amazonification of things too has created different environments to 111 00:08:40,145 --> 00:08:45,605 work within. And I think from your point of view, I'm curious also is that for 112 00:08:45,605 --> 00:08:50,565 so long we've seen distribution centers that are loading semi-trailers, 20, 113 00:08:50,565 --> 00:08:55,065 40-foot trailers, and they're needing dock doors. And now we need to be more agile. 114 00:08:55,065 --> 00:08:58,645 We need to be loading vans and box trucks and things like that. 115 00:08:58,645 --> 00:09:02,045 So it's creating different levels of service that are required. 116 00:09:02,045 --> 00:09:07,585 obviously you're going to have strategy stratification of store levels and whatnot 117 00:09:07,585 --> 00:09:14,425 but trying to piece what product needs to be where when how 118 00:09:14,425 --> 00:09:19,085 it gets there it's a proposition that's changed a lot but it continues to evolve 119 00:09:19,085 --> 00:09:25,465 i'm sure you're seeing that all day it's super fun yeah and the variety that we see 120 00:09:25,465 --> 00:09:32,225 is pretty wide so for example we have one that does musical instruments and 121 00:09:32,225 --> 00:09:37,545 it's a e-commerce they do a few billion a year so it's a good size enterprise 122 00:09:37,545 --> 00:09:43,985 and then to see what does it take to get musical instruments to every kid or all 123 00:09:43,985 --> 00:09:49,585 the rock stars and musicians of america and then where do you hold your inventory 124 00:09:49,585 --> 00:09:54,025 how much do you need which are really small and need to be picked what are 125 00:09:54,025 --> 00:10:00,285 super high value and there's more value add in inspections and in returns and 126 00:10:00,285 --> 00:10:04,905 in more customer service. So it's so fun to see the product type and the customer 127 00:10:04,905 --> 00:10:09,998 profile really dictate what the method is and then how that ends up manifesting 128 00:10:09,998 --> 00:10:16,158 in the warehouse itself. Yeah, and it's historically, going back to the 129 00:10:16,158 --> 00:10:20,958 conversation about kind of textbook supply and demand and understanding the formulas 130 00:10:20,958 --> 00:10:25,438 and demand and lead time and standard deviation and those types of things that 131 00:10:25,438 --> 00:10:27,898 have all been based on historical data points. 132 00:10:27,898 --> 00:10:32,298 but with the advent of the internet, with social media, 133 00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:37,098 with TikTok, with all the things we've learned during COVID, that two years of 134 00:10:37,098 --> 00:10:41,718 historical data doesn't really get us as far as it used to. And now it's more about 135 00:10:41,718 --> 00:10:47,458 how do we create the awareness of what's happening in a moment? Who said what? 136 00:10:47,458 --> 00:10:52,098 Who's playing which instrument? Who's wearing what products? And how do we 137 00:10:52,098 --> 00:10:56,638 react so that we can get that out to the market as quickly as possible, hopefully 138 00:10:56,638 --> 00:11:00,578 in a sustainable way, one that's not doing damage along the way, but 139 00:11:01,618 --> 00:11:04,298 it's really created a lot of dynamic situations. 140 00:11:05,118 --> 00:11:10,818 Yeah, I think in our quest to look for new clients and in landlords' quest to 141 00:11:10,818 --> 00:11:14,838 look for new tenants for their buildings, we are always trying to look for 142 00:11:14,838 --> 00:11:21,098 leading indicators of leasing demand. And so throughout the program, learning more 143 00:11:21,098 --> 00:11:26,787 about how companies forecast and learning all about forecasting and planning 144 00:11:26,787 --> 00:11:32,767 and demand that I had no awareness of how corporate America was going through 145 00:11:32,767 --> 00:11:36,947 that process. And then trying to learn both of those and mesh them a little bit. 146 00:11:36,947 --> 00:11:41,167 That was something that, to your point, I found a lot of value in. 147 00:11:41,167 --> 00:11:45,187 And then a more appreciation for how difficult that must be. 148 00:11:45,907 --> 00:11:51,207 Yeah. There's a lot of decisions that go into things that we don't realize. Yeah. 149 00:11:52,247 --> 00:11:57,567 And then you said you went to SCM that turned into Gartner. 150 00:11:57,587 --> 00:12:02,167 What kind of work were you doing there? Yeah, that was along the lines of kind 151 00:12:02,167 --> 00:12:06,907 of think tank-ish. So it was a bit more along the lines of executive advisory. 152 00:12:06,947 --> 00:12:10,807 And we worked with a number of the world's leading chief supply chain officers and 153 00:12:10,807 --> 00:12:16,647 their teams to create a community where they can interact with themselves, but 154 00:12:16,647 --> 00:12:20,567 we could also facilitate learning between them. And so we would help take 155 00:12:20,567 --> 00:12:24,967 the stories and the messages from one company and help others understand 156 00:12:24,967 --> 00:12:30,907 why that's transferable and what to learn about digital demand and omni-channel 157 00:12:30,907 --> 00:12:36,747 and customer centricity and logistics and all of those different processes. Because 158 00:12:36,747 --> 00:12:42,407 of the ubiquity of a lot of the work, it became really advantageous for those teams 159 00:12:42,407 --> 00:12:46,147 to say, here are some things to think about. Here's how somebody else did it. 160 00:12:46,147 --> 00:12:50,127 You may not have thought about, if you're a CPG company, you may 161 00:12:50,127 --> 00:12:54,367 not have thought about how a healthcare company is delivering products or 162 00:12:54,367 --> 00:12:58,267 vice versa, but here are some things that you can take away from their experience. 163 00:12:58,367 --> 00:13:02,447 And it was really fantastic to drive a lot of those conversations. 164 00:13:02,447 --> 00:13:06,827 And some of my favorite moments were the pushback from 165 00:13:06,827 --> 00:13:11,607 a chief supply chain officer when trying to encourage them to take control of the 166 00:13:11,607 --> 00:13:15,187 sales process a little bit. And they said, no, we'll never be able to do that. 167 00:13:15,187 --> 00:13:18,327 But by the end of the call, they said, well, here's the strategy 168 00:13:18,327 --> 00:13:21,627 that we can do to inform them of what we're good at and what we're not good at. 169 00:13:21,627 --> 00:13:25,507 And here's how we can start to shape the messaging so we can all get better. 170 00:13:25,927 --> 00:13:29,447 And that's the type of work that we really try to do is help people 171 00:13:29,447 --> 00:13:35,207 to go up beyond what they see now and is kind of the current status quo and 172 00:13:35,207 --> 00:13:39,187 see, where can I make a little bit of a pivot or where can I be a little bit more 173 00:13:39,187 --> 00:13:43,347 assertive and where can I be confident in the decisions I'm making? And we did our 174 00:13:43,347 --> 00:13:47,447 job so well that Gartner bought us. So at least that's the way we like to say it. 175 00:13:48,787 --> 00:13:52,727 So SCM World was small, 100 people, London-based. 176 00:13:52,807 --> 00:13:56,147 And then obviously Gartner is massive US corporate. 177 00:13:56,927 --> 00:14:03,127 And then moved into the supply chain planning group from the industry analyst 178 00:14:03,127 --> 00:14:06,907 standpoint. So helped shepherd that integration, stayed with a number of 179 00:14:06,907 --> 00:14:11,887 our legacy customers, but then worked on the Gartner analysis as well and really 180 00:14:11,887 --> 00:14:17,227 saw what it's like from that standpoint of kind of, you know, the events 181 00:14:17,227 --> 00:14:22,947 and the messages and the content and the necessity to stay fresh along the way. 182 00:14:22,947 --> 00:14:28,127 So it was two different sides of the same type of role, but it was interesting 183 00:14:28,127 --> 00:14:32,487 to see the different perspectives in small versus big and European versus U .S. 184 00:14:32,487 --> 00:14:37,587 and so on. Not done in the same manner. There's more than one way to do it. 185 00:14:37,847 --> 00:14:43,647 Exactly. I have not been sucked into one of the conferences, though I would love to 186 00:14:43,647 --> 00:14:47,567 go. I would think it would be fascinating to be part of those discussions 187 00:14:47,567 --> 00:14:53,147 and hear how Gartner can help facilitate and enrich those. 188 00:14:53,467 --> 00:14:59,067 And then not until probably six or seven years ago did I ever have 189 00:14:59,067 --> 00:15:05,447 like a chief supply chain officer airtime or like experience in projects. And 190 00:15:05,447 --> 00:15:10,247 then since then, I have had a couple and it's been interesting to see real estate. 191 00:15:11,567 --> 00:15:17,527 Sometimes it's C-level, sometimes it's CFO is always involved. 192 00:15:18,107 --> 00:15:23,467 Oftentimes it's like an operations level and who owns it? 193 00:15:23,467 --> 00:15:28,267 And depending on the company size, scale, and just like how centralized 194 00:15:28,267 --> 00:15:33,347 or decentralized they are, it really is a mixed bag. And so it's been interesting 195 00:15:33,347 --> 00:15:37,807 to have some experiences with chief supply chain officers being in charge of real 196 00:15:37,807 --> 00:15:42,147 estate. And then they have a different lens. They have a different perspective. 197 00:15:42,487 --> 00:15:47,987 And then to like build off of that experience and then even 198 00:15:47,987 --> 00:15:54,427 see some like procurement people in the real estate realm, which to me was like, 199 00:15:54,447 --> 00:15:59,387 I didn't know what it was for the longest time. That just never entered my purview. 200 00:15:59,467 --> 00:16:03,827 And then now I get it. Because if you think of like 201 00:16:03,827 --> 00:16:10,367 juggling lots of high value purchasing needs, like contractual liabilities 202 00:16:10,367 --> 00:16:15,567 and sourcing things for a company, like real estate kind of is just a really 203 00:16:15,567 --> 00:16:19,627 huge product that you're sourcing for your company that you need to negotiate. 204 00:16:19,627 --> 00:16:23,487 You have to be familiar with contracts. You have all these vendor relations. 205 00:16:23,647 --> 00:16:26,687 And so now that I have more experience and thanks to the 206 00:16:26,687 --> 00:16:33,447 program now, I get a little bit more about what does like a head of procurement need? 207 00:16:33,447 --> 00:16:36,267 What are they juggling? How are they trained to operate? 208 00:16:36,567 --> 00:16:40,367 And what's a day in their life look like other than knowing what 209 00:16:40,367 --> 00:16:44,827 they paid for everything that's in the building, which is kind of a lot of fun. 210 00:16:44,827 --> 00:16:49,467 It's fun to see like everything they know, like exactly how it works. 211 00:16:49,467 --> 00:16:53,647 Yeah. And that example, the one that I'd referenced before, I mean, there's a 212 00:16:53,647 --> 00:16:57,727 the chief supply chain officer was saying how they were struggling to distribute 213 00:16:57,727 --> 00:17:02,307 products into sub-Saharan Africa. It's a medical device company. It was a critical 214 00:17:02,307 --> 00:17:08,127 need. Exiting the market was not an option. And so the conversation he and his 215 00:17:08,127 --> 00:17:14,087 team eventually had was we're investing in resources and staffing and equipment 216 00:17:14,087 --> 00:17:20,947 to put our own in-house capability on the ground. and we still aren't doing it well 217 00:17:20,947 --> 00:17:27,687 because we've failed to deliver based upon the necessities of the local context. 218 00:17:28,547 --> 00:17:32,167 And then he started to talk about the fact that we'd be better served 219 00:17:32,167 --> 00:17:36,247 if we spent a little bit money working or lost a little bit of money 220 00:17:36,247 --> 00:17:40,727 going through a distributor, but then we can save the operating costs and reinvest 221 00:17:40,727 --> 00:17:45,107 it in other places where we do see value such as domestically or other parts. 222 00:17:45,147 --> 00:17:49,567 And so that trade-off conversation about real estate and procurement, it was 223 00:17:49,567 --> 00:17:52,267 all one conversation. It wasn't segmented anymore. 224 00:17:52,267 --> 00:17:56,207 It was the broader picture about how do we best serve our customers 225 00:17:56,207 --> 00:18:00,867 or patients in the healthcare sense, and how do we do it in a way that benefits the 226 00:18:00,867 --> 00:18:05,987 business? It's all one conversation. It's just different elements. Yeah, true that. 227 00:18:06,247 --> 00:18:11,447 It's so good to zoom out and put that back into perspective. We play 228 00:18:11,447 --> 00:18:16,847 one role, but they're dealing with this Rubik's Cube and trying to figure out like 229 00:18:16,847 --> 00:18:22,007 the best package to ultimately provide the best service. Yeah, absolutely. 230 00:18:23,047 --> 00:18:24,747 And Brian Johnson. 231 00:18:25,127 --> 00:18:29,527 So tell me about him, your connection and how he was able to sway you 232 00:18:29,527 --> 00:18:34,607 into where you are now. Yeah. So Brian had reached out to me and I'd worked with him. 233 00:18:34,627 --> 00:18:39,667 Nike was one of his customers, Walmart, when we were at Gartner. So we spent a lot 234 00:18:39,667 --> 00:18:44,587 of time talking together and certainly his connection to the University of Arkansas 235 00:18:44,587 --> 00:18:48,667 and the Walton School of Business is more from the heart than than anything. 236 00:18:48,687 --> 00:18:53,127 He's just very passionate about that program. And it so happened that I believe 237 00:18:53,127 --> 00:18:58,107 it was Rod Thomas had taught the online version of the course that I now teach. 238 00:18:58,107 --> 00:19:02,947 but he picked up another in-person course, a section. 239 00:19:03,407 --> 00:19:07,727 And so because of the growth of the program, both in person and online, 240 00:19:07,847 --> 00:19:13,967 it became a necessity to bring somebody in quickly. And so Brian reached out in that 241 00:19:13,967 --> 00:19:18,687 moment because Rod had had to take his class, the demand for his class had grown. 242 00:19:18,807 --> 00:19:24,207 So I was able to jump in very quickly. It was an opportunity to join 243 00:19:24,207 --> 00:19:30,827 a world-class supply chain program. And really, there was a lot of flexibility 244 00:19:30,827 --> 00:19:35,067 that was built into it. It was more about how do we try to teach this in a way? How 245 00:19:35,067 --> 00:19:40,047 do we deliver something that's engaging in an online program? And so it happened 246 00:19:40,047 --> 00:19:46,027 all very quickly, which was good. I would say it didn't allow me to think too hard. 247 00:19:46,267 --> 00:19:52,247 Exactly. Yeah. And so it became a question of what's the best way to structure it? 248 00:19:52,247 --> 00:19:55,447 How would I want to take a course? How would I want to learn? 249 00:19:57,407 --> 00:20:01,367 certainly learned a lot very quickly through those first couple of years and 250 00:20:01,367 --> 00:20:06,027 then continue to iterate along the way too and that's for me that's one of the 251 00:20:06,027 --> 00:20:11,047 greatest things that I think that comes out of that program is it really really 252 00:20:11,047 --> 00:20:17,407 empowers its its educators to to teach the way they think is best and 253 00:20:17,407 --> 00:20:22,787 it's continually evolving its curriculum and evolving course requirements 254 00:20:22,787 --> 00:20:28,427 and graduation requirements. It's not saying we were the number one supply chain 255 00:20:28,427 --> 00:20:31,867 program once and that's good enough. It's saying how do we be the number one supply 256 00:20:31,867 --> 00:20:36,667 chain program five years from now and then five years after that? Yeah, imagine 257 00:20:36,667 --> 00:20:41,387 how difficult it is in the education space for universities to be current 258 00:20:41,387 --> 00:20:48,087 or to stay current or to make sure they're providing value to the student body. 259 00:20:48,187 --> 00:20:51,847 For me, I have kids that are going through elementary school and middle school. 260 00:20:51,847 --> 00:20:54,167 So what are they doing for school and seeing 261 00:20:54,167 --> 00:21:00,427 them be students is fun and opportunity to reflect on what it was like for me. 262 00:21:00,427 --> 00:21:04,447 But I could only imagine for you thinking through like it's not like you want to 263 00:21:04,447 --> 00:21:09,487 teach someone else's curriculum that you may or may not have a connection to. 264 00:21:09,627 --> 00:21:12,767 Like your best opportunity is take what you have a personal 265 00:21:12,767 --> 00:21:16,927 experience with and a connection to and to really like breathe life into it. 266 00:21:16,927 --> 00:21:21,167 So it's awesome to have the flexibility. Yeah. And as we had spoken about 267 00:21:21,167 --> 00:21:26,407 before, too, I have such a tremendous amount of respect for those individuals, 268 00:21:26,467 --> 00:21:30,707 those professors who have gotten their Ph .D., who've spent years of their 269 00:21:30,707 --> 00:21:35,347 lives grounding their experience on the academic side and bringing that forward. 270 00:21:35,347 --> 00:21:41,027 And I didn't want to step on that. In all honesty, I just have too much respect 271 00:21:41,027 --> 00:21:44,167 for the work that they put into it. So I wanted to come at it a little bit 272 00:21:44,167 --> 00:21:47,907 differently from a selfish perspective, but also a respect perspective. 273 00:21:47,987 --> 00:21:54,307 And then trying to be additive is the other part is that it isn't just trying to 274 00:21:54,307 --> 00:21:59,647 take what somebody else has said and just, you know, they said it, they wrote it in a 275 00:21:59,647 --> 00:22:03,347 blue font. I'm going to write it in a black font. No, that's not how we're 276 00:22:03,347 --> 00:22:07,587 going to do this. It's trying to take the lessons that are learned and really put 277 00:22:07,587 --> 00:22:11,747 it in the student's perspective to say, how do I take this into my job and 278 00:22:11,747 --> 00:22:17,207 do something that even if it's that one little nugget that I can have in my back 279 00:22:17,207 --> 00:22:21,687 pocket and throw out in a conversation, then that's a win as far as I'm concerned. 280 00:22:21,687 --> 00:22:25,247 yeah i love the ability to do 281 00:22:25,247 --> 00:22:31,527 it um while working full-time so that you are literally like i need this now or i'm 282 00:22:31,527 --> 00:22:35,502 able to put it into service immediately i feel like that's the best part 283 00:22:35,502 --> 00:22:40,557 it can help right there in the moment yeah and i that's the way i went to grad school 284 00:22:40,557 --> 00:22:45,657 to business school was in a hybrid program as well and i i loved it at the time. 285 00:22:45,677 --> 00:22:50,837 My wife was pregnant when I started the program and I had an infant when I ended 286 00:22:50,837 --> 00:22:56,817 it. So it was easy peasy, huh? That sounds pretty difficult. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 287 00:22:58,277 --> 00:23:03,897 Mine was I did a B school, what would have now 288 00:23:03,897 --> 00:23:10,657 been 15 years ago, 18 years ago. And it was my wife was just finishing law school. 289 00:23:10,657 --> 00:23:14,717 I was finishing business school and we had just gotten engaged. and so it's 290 00:23:14,717 --> 00:23:18,888 so wild to think back to those moments in time of how much you could juggle and 291 00:23:18,888 --> 00:23:23,348 what it's like having big life events and working and having school all at the same 292 00:23:23,348 --> 00:23:28,628 time yeah it's pretty cool I love it those are the times and then it flips right 293 00:23:28,628 --> 00:23:32,908 I mean you're in that stage my kids are 16 and 14 and so a junior in high school 294 00:23:32,908 --> 00:23:37,188 and a freshman in high school and yeah it's fun it's funny pulling up blackboard 295 00:23:37,188 --> 00:23:41,348 and my daughter says oh that looks like canvas and showing her how I'm building 296 00:23:41,348 --> 00:23:46,668 the course and then talking about what education might look like when they go off 297 00:23:46,668 --> 00:23:53,308 to undergrad. And it's a crazy twist of fate. Yeah, I love it. 298 00:23:53,328 --> 00:23:57,808 That is an interesting perspective for you to have and to share. Yeah, absolutely. 299 00:23:58,268 --> 00:24:03,088 You're like, universities will have value. They'll adapt. It's just a bumpy road and 300 00:24:03,088 --> 00:24:07,268 everybody's got to figure it out based on where they're at and how agile they are. 301 00:24:07,628 --> 00:24:10,348 Yeah. And there's no one way, right? 302 00:24:10,348 --> 00:24:14,668 I mean, you've seen different types of education. You've experienced 303 00:24:14,668 --> 00:24:20,728 it for yourself as if I. And so finding what works for you to get the experience 304 00:24:20,728 --> 00:24:24,888 that, again, transferable experience, how can you apply what's being learned? 305 00:24:24,948 --> 00:24:29,328 That's the most important part to me. Not everybody needs to be on campus. 306 00:24:29,328 --> 00:24:32,988 And I certainly loved being on campus for undergrad. I wouldn't 307 00:24:32,988 --> 00:24:38,508 have done it any other way, but I respect that others learn differently. Yeah, it 308 00:24:38,508 --> 00:24:43,948 was network design and optimization that sucked me into this particular program. 309 00:24:43,948 --> 00:24:49,177 I was like, if I'm going to do this, we have to have that and we have to have it 310 00:24:49,177 --> 00:24:54,197 right up front. That was the pain that I was feeling that I felt like that was the 311 00:24:54,197 --> 00:24:58,133 thing I could learn that if that's all I learned, this whole thing will have been a 312 00:24:58,133 --> 00:25:03,333 success and everything else is a bonus to that and so I was so thankful that Joel 313 00:25:03,333 --> 00:25:09,913 and the program had that and I was able to take it right away having been in industry 314 00:25:09,913 --> 00:25:16,633 for almost too long now that that was like I wouldn't make a mockery of like going to 315 00:25:16,633 --> 00:25:22,293 that class soon like this fit right into my practitioner like knowledge journey and 316 00:25:22,293 --> 00:25:27,773 yeah that was just one of those aspects that like to your point of like a learning 317 00:25:27,773 --> 00:25:31,553 environment. So I was like, for me, that's the requirement. It could be in person. 318 00:25:31,553 --> 00:25:33,693 It could be online. I just like 319 00:25:33,693 --> 00:25:37,913 learning it from Coupa isn't an option. It's not going to work that way. 320 00:25:37,913 --> 00:25:41,913 Like there's got to be another way. Yeah. I mean, it's funny you mentioned that. 321 00:25:41,913 --> 00:25:46,213 That was, that was one course from my undergrad experience where all of it 322 00:25:46,213 --> 00:25:49,353 clicked. It was the class that I did the best in an undergrad. 323 00:25:49,353 --> 00:25:53,193 And I remember taking an exam and just, it was the easiest exam I had ever taken. 324 00:25:53,313 --> 00:25:57,693 Not because the content was easy, but because it just was clear and 325 00:25:57,693 --> 00:26:04,253 it was such a buildup of the math concepts and the the networking concepts 326 00:26:04,253 --> 00:26:08,993 and being able to do linear programming and then all of a sudden saying oh 327 00:26:08,993 --> 00:26:12,693 there's a reason i learned all these things that i nearly failed at 328 00:26:12,693 --> 00:26:17,573 but now i can apply the things that i've learned and package that together with 329 00:26:17,573 --> 00:26:22,653 something else and i can really excel with a couple of things that i didn't excel at. 330 00:26:22,873 --> 00:26:27,613 That was always just really fascinating to me as I look back. It made me think 331 00:26:27,613 --> 00:26:34,458 real estate's easy in the sense of there's only a hundred variables or something 332 00:26:34,458 --> 00:26:39,478 like that. There's not the ability to have a thousand variables. So I was like, okay, 333 00:26:39,478 --> 00:26:46,130 in order to be confident in the thousand variables, it surely is a team sport. 334 00:26:46,130 --> 00:26:50,130 It requires a lot of experience. And though I have a ton of experience 335 00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:55,710 and I know my hundred, like top to bottom, left to right, inside out, it was 336 00:26:55,710 --> 00:27:01,410 a perfect building experience. But for me, the pieces didn't quite click so cleanly. 337 00:27:01,450 --> 00:27:05,530 It was finding there was new pieces and a lot of new pieces that was a fun part 338 00:27:05,530 --> 00:27:10,590 of the adventure. Yeah. Yeah, even now, just the idea of the 339 00:27:10,590 --> 00:27:14,950 constraints that go into something like that, knowing of those hundred variables, 340 00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:21,950 well, if you pick, variable four, then only variables 42 and 75 come into play. 341 00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:26,870 And so that's the part that it's still going back to the 342 00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:31,490 conversation too, is that understanding those things and understanding how to work 343 00:27:31,490 --> 00:27:36,070 within constraints and, and how to take those constraints and build off of them. 344 00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:40,770 That, that part I think is, is still, still a very human piece 345 00:27:40,770 --> 00:27:45,370 as much as it's math driven and can be programmed, it's still at that level where 346 00:27:45,370 --> 00:27:50,970 it says, okay, now knowing what I know, where do I want to ask the next question? 347 00:27:50,970 --> 00:27:54,230 How do I want to take this one step further? Yes. 348 00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:59,390 Judgment's not going away anytime soon. No. No, it's not. 349 00:28:00,430 --> 00:28:04,330 And then tell me about Salesforce. That's got to be exciting. 350 00:28:04,410 --> 00:28:11,290 We use it. I've used it for 10 or 15 years. and then using things like Claude 351 00:28:11,290 --> 00:28:17,890 and then seeing those two get married and things being headless and all of that has 352 00:28:17,890 --> 00:28:24,710 been awesome. But it's also amazing to see how much it changes what I do and 353 00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:31,270 how I do it today versus 12 months ago. And then loving every minute and finding 354 00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:36,850 it hard to imagine going back to how it was and that feeling like archaic almost. 355 00:28:37,330 --> 00:28:41,950 So I imagine you got a front row seat to that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 356 00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:46,650 And I've been in various supply chain technology companies and have seen a lot 357 00:28:46,650 --> 00:28:51,710 of it. But what's really fascinating to me is just we're now at this place where 358 00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:57,690 historically, and I'm sure you see this, but historically we've had a number of 359 00:28:57,690 --> 00:29:02,510 processes and a number of ways that work got done that we knew weren't quite right. 360 00:29:02,510 --> 00:29:05,250 But the cost to do it right, 361 00:29:05,310 --> 00:29:10,790 whether it was financial cost or time, just overall effort to make the changes 362 00:29:10,790 --> 00:29:16,610 didn't necessarily line up with the reward or the return or the timeline. And we're 363 00:29:16,610 --> 00:29:21,130 now at this place where you can have these AI enabled services, these things that 364 00:29:21,130 --> 00:29:25,670 get us started more quickly, or we can drive changes and implement them same day. 365 00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:33,190 seeing somebody come in with a robust SOP and process map design is a fascinating 366 00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:38,330 experience but then they say okay now I want to automate it and they're just lost 367 00:29:38,330 --> 00:29:42,450 because they don't they say well Justin does this over here and he hands it to 368 00:29:42,450 --> 00:29:46,750 Patrick and then Patrick goes and walks it down the hall and you realize that a lot 369 00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:50,330 of these processes a lot of the work has just been institutionalized 370 00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:53,290 workarounds and that's the thing that that I really am 371 00:29:53,290 --> 00:29:58,130 and I don't like going to Patrick's office any more than I have to or whatever. Yeah. 372 00:29:58,130 --> 00:30:02,110 Yeah. And now I can just ping him via Slack and I can, I don't even have to go 373 00:30:02,110 --> 00:30:06,930 into a UI or I don't have to have a physical piece of paper. Yeah. So that's 374 00:30:06,930 --> 00:30:13,310 the thing that is really fascinating just to see that the work that, especially 375 00:30:13,310 --> 00:30:17,590 from the work that's the foundational work. And this is, I've been thinking 376 00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:22,810 about this a lot lately is the IE side of me, the industrial engineering side of me. 377 00:30:22,890 --> 00:30:28,370 Yep. I've almost come back to that because a lot of the work that I think about now 378 00:30:28,370 --> 00:30:34,410 is that foundational work. It's what are the processes that are done everywhere? 379 00:30:35,030 --> 00:30:40,890 Supplier onboarding, invoicing, order management, like those kinds of things. 380 00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:45,710 And it's interesting to get down to that fundamental piece and try to figure out 381 00:30:45,710 --> 00:30:51,210 the right ways to help companies do that better. Because when we talk to executives 382 00:30:51,210 --> 00:30:55,110 and you say, what are the outcomes that you're being pressured to achieve? 383 00:30:55,830 --> 00:31:00,090 Dealing with margin compression. I'm dealing with import-export costs. 384 00:31:00,150 --> 00:31:05,000 I'm dealing with working capital. Okay, so let's talk about what's driving that. 385 00:31:05,013 --> 00:31:10,653 Well, what's preventing you from improving inventory? Oh, well, we've got this 386 00:31:10,653 --> 00:31:15,713 manual process, or our documentation in warehouses is terrible, and we don't know 387 00:31:15,713 --> 00:31:17,573 what's actually in the warehouse. Great. 388 00:31:17,573 --> 00:31:21,513 Now, how do you go fix that? Because if you can fix that underlying process, 389 00:31:22,733 --> 00:31:26,353 that's where you can actually alleviate the pressures that roll up 390 00:31:26,353 --> 00:31:30,093 and all of a sudden your value creation accelerates. That's 391 00:31:30,093 --> 00:31:34,833 the part that's just a ton of fun because we're not talking about ripping out 392 00:31:34,833 --> 00:31:39,053 SAP and completely reinventing your ERP. We're talking about doing the work that 393 00:31:39,053 --> 00:31:42,793 you do every single day that's actually holding you back from getting better. 394 00:31:42,793 --> 00:31:47,273 that's the part that I'm really geeking out on and having so much fun doing yeah 395 00:31:47,273 --> 00:31:51,753 that's a perfect background for that kind of work 396 00:31:51,753 --> 00:31:57,653 yeah yeah it's funny how things come come around full circle you ask why is that 397 00:31:57,653 --> 00:32:04,293 three times minimum and maybe five or some version to get down like like the 398 00:32:04,293 --> 00:32:09,573 weeds and then to yeah like modernize it and then roll it back up yeah absolutely 399 00:32:09,573 --> 00:32:16,513 yeah Yeah, I would imagine there's a lot of people like the 400 00:32:16,513 --> 00:32:21,633 learning curve or like that distilling across industry is such a long process. 401 00:32:21,913 --> 00:32:25,953 So I would imagine everybody's going through it at their own different pace. 402 00:32:25,953 --> 00:32:28,973 And there's like a not a bottomless need for it. 403 00:32:28,973 --> 00:32:32,137 But I would imagine like today that is the need. Exactly. 404 00:32:32,217 --> 00:32:38,477 Exactly. And that's going back to that point too is that it's the high impact, 405 00:32:38,657 --> 00:32:43,977 high repetition kinds of things that we're so busy doing them that we don't often 406 00:32:43,977 --> 00:32:48,377 stop to think, well, what if this was just done differently? And what if I didn't? 407 00:32:48,557 --> 00:32:54,297 You don't like coming to my office? Well, what if you didn't have to? Yeah. uh those 408 00:32:54,297 --> 00:33:01,137 were too too uh for far down in like a minutiae level to be accessible to 409 00:33:01,137 --> 00:33:06,157 be solvable and now perhaps yeah now you can and that should unlock all sorts of 410 00:33:06,157 --> 00:33:11,637 enterprise value all over the place yeah yeah and it's you know you talk about kind 411 00:33:11,637 --> 00:33:15,957 of some of the elements from from your side of the house and you know network 412 00:33:15,957 --> 00:33:20,657 optimization and Coupa and llamasoft and being able to put things in the 413 00:33:20,657 --> 00:33:26,397 right places, but now it's saying, okay, now how do we, how do we make sure it gets 414 00:33:26,397 --> 00:33:31,817 to the right plane, truck, or, or train? You know, where are those kinds of things? 415 00:33:31,817 --> 00:33:35,097 Like, what are the process for deciding on that? How far in advance? 416 00:33:35,297 --> 00:33:36,817 The questions we can ask, 417 00:33:36,817 --> 00:33:42,237 ask ourselves are more nuanced and more expansive in terms of the opportunity. 418 00:33:43,897 --> 00:33:45,917 Yeah. These are exciting times. 419 00:33:45,917 --> 00:33:50,197 That's a good stuff, Patrick. Yeah. Goes to show there's no There's no shortage 420 00:33:50,197 --> 00:33:55,497 of room for improvement and opportunity and employment and contribution out there. 421 00:33:55,597 --> 00:34:00,677 Yeah, it's evolving, but certainly there's definitely plenty of work to be done. 422 00:34:00,677 --> 00:34:04,757 There's plenty of supply chains needing to learn and 423 00:34:04,757 --> 00:34:09,957 grow in advance because there's a great book, and the concept is very simple, but 424 00:34:09,957 --> 00:34:14,797 what got you here won't get you there. And so the success that many companies have 425 00:34:14,797 --> 00:34:19,897 put into building their programs or to building their networks is very admirable. 426 00:34:20,317 --> 00:34:26,197 But in my experience and certainly at SCM World, one of my favorite talking points 427 00:34:26,197 --> 00:34:31,717 from a decade ago is that the companies that viewed themselves as most advanced 428 00:34:31,717 --> 00:34:37,097 in things like Omnichannel back 10 years ago, they were also the ones that were 429 00:34:37,097 --> 00:34:40,717 investing most heavily. It wasn't enough to get to a point of success. 430 00:34:40,717 --> 00:34:46,177 It's always the, I'm here and I'm resetting what the floor is. 431 00:34:46,177 --> 00:34:51,277 I'm not necessarily looking at the, great, I went from zero to one to two. 432 00:34:51,677 --> 00:34:55,177 You're perpetually the Amazon mindset of what's day one. 433 00:34:55,517 --> 00:35:00,557 That's really a pervasive thought process than in many leading companies. 434 00:35:01,117 --> 00:35:05,297 Raising the floor. I love it. One of the ways they taught 435 00:35:05,297 --> 00:35:11,217 that to me in Strategic Coach that's a program for entrepreneurs is like on the 436 00:35:11,217 --> 00:35:16,717 upside is your largest check. If you think of like checks are the windfall for a 437 00:35:16,717 --> 00:35:21,797 project that you win and then raising your minimum check or some version of that. 438 00:35:21,817 --> 00:35:26,117 And it is so good to do over time. That's just checks and money. 439 00:35:26,117 --> 00:35:29,897 But if you just think of like capabilities, performance, and just 440 00:35:29,897 --> 00:35:34,860 like, gosh, think of what you know now and how powerful you can be and then say 441 00:35:34,860 --> 00:35:39,993 okay, if this is now the standard, what growth is possible is always so powerful. 442 00:35:40,333 --> 00:35:46,573 Yeah. And it's also important too is that we're not going to know all the answers. 443 00:35:46,793 --> 00:35:51,393 So you walk into a chief supply chain officer with a real estate proposal. 444 00:35:51,393 --> 00:35:56,633 somebody else walks in with a strategic growth initiative, we're 445 00:35:56,633 --> 00:36:01,133 going to get grilled on what we're doing, why we're doing it, how it adds value. 446 00:36:01,693 --> 00:36:05,453 And we're not going to know those answers, but it's about how do we know enough and 447 00:36:05,453 --> 00:36:09,213 how do we have confidence in the experiences that we have so that we can 448 00:36:09,213 --> 00:36:15,433 talk to the solution. And I tell this all the time to younger career professionals, 449 00:36:15,453 --> 00:36:19,773 undergrads, it's not necessarily about knowing the answer. It's about proving 450 00:36:19,773 --> 00:36:23,173 that you can get to the answer and knowing that you have the ability 451 00:36:23,173 --> 00:36:27,393 to think through it critically and you're not going to get stopped by the first no. 452 00:36:28,333 --> 00:36:34,193 Yeah, that's the best. Yeah, that's almost like Father Patrick right there. 453 00:36:34,193 --> 00:36:38,413 If you're like, okay, kids, this is how you think about challenges. 454 00:36:38,973 --> 00:36:43,913 Yeah, it's funny because I've mentored some variety of different people, 455 00:36:43,913 --> 00:36:47,473 different ages through the University of Michigan, Arkansas, local here 456 00:36:47,473 --> 00:36:51,613 in Rhode Island, some friends that I've just started off as mentor relationships 457 00:36:51,613 --> 00:36:56,933 and the consistency of that i think is is really that people have a very 458 00:36:56,933 --> 00:37:01,213 unique story to tell individually and that we all have our own backgrounds and we 459 00:37:01,213 --> 00:37:06,093 all have our own perspectives and that's the stuff that gets to be really cool 460 00:37:06,093 --> 00:37:11,913 is when i'm asked for my opinion i need to i need to come at it from that place 461 00:37:11,913 --> 00:37:16,533 of all of the experiences i have what that raised floor looks like for me yeah and 462 00:37:16,533 --> 00:37:22,013 your your floor your ceiling are different than mine my my experience isn't better 463 00:37:22,013 --> 00:37:25,853 or worse than yours but it's just being confident in that perspective that being 464 00:37:25,853 --> 00:37:30,473 able to bring that to the conversation and i think that's that's a tough thing in a 465 00:37:30,473 --> 00:37:37,373 very uncertain world yeah but it's it's something that really it it's empowering 466 00:37:37,373 --> 00:37:44,153 when it hits when you own it yeah that's the best yeah yeah well thank 467 00:37:44,153 --> 00:37:49,753 you Patrick. I appreciate you spending time and so good to just get to know more 468 00:37:49,753 --> 00:37:55,513 of your journey. And I'm excited to see you have more positive impact on people 469 00:37:55,513 --> 00:37:59,733 and see where your journey goes. Thank you, Justin. It's a pleasure to connect. 470 00:37:59,753 --> 00:38:03,993 And again, for everybody watching, listening, Justin was an A plus student. 471 00:38:03,993 --> 00:38:09,073 He always went above and beyond the thoughtfulness you put into your answers 472 00:38:09,073 --> 00:38:13,333 and your responses and your engagement with your peers was extremely notable. So 473 00:38:13,333 --> 00:38:19,853 thank you for that. I'm making up for high school, so I'm late but worth the wait. 474 00:38:20,213 --> 00:38:22,613 Yeah. Excellent. There's still time, right? 475 00:38:23,053 --> 00:38:27,513 Yes. Always. Thank you, Patrick. Thanks, Justin. Be well. Yep. Bye-bye.