Inside the NorCal Industrial Growth Engine | Craig Hagglund

Craig Hagglund 00:33

Yeah, thanks for having me, Justin. It's good to be here.

Craig Hagglund 00:40

Yeah, so basically that was my first in eighty nine. I started working at it wasn't even C B R E back then, it was Coldwell Banker Commercial. I started my first internship there and the year I graduated from Cal. So that's when things started in eighty nine.

Craig Hagglund 01:02

So we started the Lee office. The first Lee office we started was in Pleasanton, and that was in 1993. So there was a group of us that were at another firm and they approached Bill Lee about opening up an office in 93. So again, it was a long time ago, but it was myself, Len Mignani, Chris Pearson, Brett Holden, Mark Pleiss, Bob Cumnick. to name a few and we opened the Pleasanton office back then on a shoestring budget and literally we were the there was two groups that came together. We were one group was working a TRI Commercial and another group was a firm called Comcore

Craig Hagglund 01:42

which was then acquired by Colliers. Those companies found out what we were doing so we were all locked out of our offices, working out of our cars and this is cell phones are just started it just began so luckily we could function a little bit, but it was a unique way to open an office, but we got it done back then in ninety three. And then I was from that office, we grew that office. and then I had a group of guys that worked what we call the 880 corridor. the Pleasanton office was more of the Tri-Valley market, but I worked the 880 corridor with a

Craig Hagglund 02:12

group of us and we've put together a plan to open an office in Oakland. I think we did that in 2005, 2006. And so we then I spearheaded the Oakland office at that time. four of us came over, myself, Jesse Lucas, Chris Schofield and Doug Pearson. We came over and opened the Oakland office, which is now we just had our twenty-year anniversary.

Craig Hagglund 02:35

and we're yeah, so it's been a successful run. We're really proud of it. And we now have roughly I think twenty-two, twenty-three agents. industrial and office brokers here working in the Oakland market, the 880 corridor basically kind of Richmond down through San Jose.

Craig Hagglund 03:06

Yeah, it was we were so Pleasanton and then shortly thereafter Stockton, but Pleasanton was the first office and then a few months later the Stockton office came about. Ernie Pearson was a big part of that. Ernie was the starter the Stockton office, but Ernie was instrumental in getting Pleasanton started as well and provided kind of the introduction to Bill, really.

Craig Hagglund 03:41

It was wild. mean, I was twenty six years old and I was living in San Francisco and I would commute to Pleasanton. But I remember we were called somebody they called us, they said you're you know, come in, get your stuff. And back then it wasn't like he had a little laptop. These were these huge desktop with huge screens, so you're you know, so they we packed up and they you know, they shut down that the office 'cause I think five of us were in five or six of us were in that office at TRI. So they shut the office down after we left. and but

Craig Hagglund 04:15

it was that time where you're immediately calling clients and saying, Hey, just so that you know there's a change going on and you know, you'll still get the same outstanding service, but we're with a better group with a better platform. we're really excited about it. But it was pretty wild. But I again I was so young, it was just fun. You know, I didn't I wasn't I didn't have a family and kids, so I really didn't

Craig Hagglund 04:36

have a lot of exposure.

Craig Hagglund 04:42

yeah. So the interesting thing is like when you start the office and then we didn't even have an office space yet. So immediately we found us quick sublease. I think we subleased it from Ford Motor Company. And then we found we went to a used office dealer down in Milpitas and we were negotiating, you know, we're just cutting our own checks. We didn't have any money you know, they had

Craig Hagglund 05:04

the way you know, back then when we would raise offices, we didn't have funds like we have today. It was you know, you'd pass the hat and people would just be sending you checks.

Craig Hagglund 05:14

and so it was a unique time for sure.

Craig Hagglund 05:24

Yes, Exactly.

Craig Hagglund 05:29

Yeah, so I'm the co managing partner of Oakland now. So with my with Chris Schofield, we're co-presidents together. and so we run it together. So we kind of have different tasks and roles. but I think we've Chris is a he balances me really well. I'm not a great detail guy. Chris is very good at the details, and he's very good at what he does.

Craig Hagglund 05:52

prior to Chris, I used to well originally when we started Oakland, I always kind of had a co-president.

Craig Hagglund 05:58

so first it was Len Mignani. some people may remember Len. He still lives in the area, and I'm still in touch with Len. then Len retired, then Mike Furay took over that role. Then Mike went over to start the Walnut Creek office. and then we had Chris take Mike's role as the co-president. And I'd say

Craig Hagglund 06:13

it's been You know, I'd sp probably eight years, roughly.

Craig Hagglund 06:39

I think if it's if you kind of balance each other's strengths out, again, I know where I'm not strong. so I really lean on Chris for certain things and I think I know where I am strong and I try and lean into that. you know, and let Chris kind of focus on his strengths. So but we have a great relate we our offices are next to each other, we communicate well and it's been a good run. So we look forward to continuing that.

Craig Hagglund 07:10

So after we did Oakland, we did an office in Walnut Creek. that just Mike Furay runs that office, and he's continued to grow that office, which is great. and then the San Francisco office came online. I'm gonna say it's been about five years now. and both offices, ironically, just moved their physical offices into new locations. And so again, Jeff Moeller's running San Francisco. he's working hard to grow that office. And then the next there's some neck logical places for another office that we're trying to you know get something down maybe further south in the Santa Clara County area. also the Sacramento market. Jim Martin from Stockton,

Craig Hagglund 07:52

he and I bat around ideas about trying to do a Sacramento office as well. but again we we'd love to do that and you know but it's again you've got to have the right people, the right mindset, somebody

Craig Hagglund 08:03

who wants to willing to lead the office, run the office, and have that player coach mentality.

Craig Hagglund 08:10

I've always found that I've explained the Lee concept to people at ad nauseum. you know, how we you know, we bonus out at the end of the year and you know, you know, depending on your office, you know, we make ninety cents on every dollar. and but some people just don't understand it, they don't get it, they don't believe you. They don't think it's possible. And so I've literally gone so far as to show 'em checks and sh literally break out the ledger and just show 'em how it works. But it really takes the right mindset and the right person to do it. So if somebody's

Craig Hagglund 08:43

been getting flipped leads their whole life at a CB, they're not the guy who's a fit for us. We need the guy who's out there hunting and killing his own food.

Craig Hagglund 09:04

Really, absolutely. Yeah,

Craig Hagglund 09:07

It's fun to see that. it's fun to see the enthusiasm and just again, Tampa's a great example of just they get after it and they've just they're expanding, growing, picking up business and really planting planted the flag and are doing well with it.

Craig Hagglund 09:52

right. Yeah, I mean Sacramento it's far enough away from the Bay Area so we don't have a lot of interaction with the brokers in that market. So,

Craig Hagglund 10:01

you know, there's gonna be some familiarity in as we you know you hear of names and people and doing deals with 'em, but it's definitely a logical market for us to expand into.

Craig Hagglund 10:16

Yeah, I mean and the our Stockton office there's a good story with our Stockton office and then the guys down in Fresno and Bakersfield and business that would go up to Sacramento and then business that would come from the Bay Area into the Sacramento market. So there's a good story with it.

Craig Hagglund 10:37

I'm sh I'm sure. I saw you guys sold that multi tenant deal a few months back in the Central Valley.

Craig Hagglund 10:49

Sure.

Craig Hagglund 11:12

Great, that's awesome.

Craig Hagglund 11:33

Yeah, absolutely.

Craig Hagglund 11:41

I'd

Craig Hagglund 11:42

say

Craig Hagglund 11:42

yeah, so in the past I've had some tenants that have been in multiple markets. where we've done had assignments whether we're expanding into different markets. P some of this was in Texas, so we worked with the Dallas office. and a some of the assignments were dispositioning and just unloading. So a company they acquired another business, so we had to get rid of some subleases, we had to sell some buildings. and it's taken me into a variety of markets from Texas, Florida,

Craig Hagglund 12:14

I think it's in North Carolina to Pennsylvania, up north and Pacific Northwest and just in different markets. So like you when you like when you're working with Berger, you're trying to find the right people for in each submarket, who's the right fit to help out on it. And I've been real lucky in the past to team up with some great players in these different offices and been very helpful.

Craig Hagglund 12:47

Oh boy. I mean it was years ago. So I remember I did a deal. Oh God, it was a company. It was a company called Classic Soft Trim. and what they did was aftermarket leather for cars. And we did it I remember I did a deal, this is before Lee had it, this is twenty-five years ago, twenty-five, thirty years ago. we did a deal in Denver. And so I actually I had to source a broker through another through I think SIOR. And it wasn't a big deal, but it was, you ten thousand feet with a little side yard, that sort of thing. But

Craig Hagglund 13:21

again, it kind of gets your mind working like if I could do, you know, work deals in my core market, but also have the discussion with clients, hey, I have the ability to work with you in multiple markets and I'd love to represent you. As you guys grow and expand across the country, if you've been happy with what the what service I've been providing. And

Craig Hagglund 13:39

then just it's just one more avenue you can go down and doing deals in the brokerage business. So that was the first one. And then it's just different clients, it's been, you know, different opportunities. They say, hey, we have a need to do this or do that. And so luckily, as the Lee network has grown, we've been able to help them out in various markets.

Craig Hagglund 14:08

You mean physically show up?

Craig Hagglund 14:11

yeah, for sure. So I would say

Craig Hagglund 14:14

not

Craig Hagglund 14:19

so I for example, yes, I so typically especially if it's an if it's a lease, like we're leasing a new building, so we'll do the I'll fly in and do the tour. not always though, but most of the time I will try and be there for the tour just so there's a you know, if we're negotiating on a building and I'm the lead on it, I wanna make sure I know the building, I'm comfortable and I I've kicked the doors in the corners.

Craig Hagglund 14:41

So, but there's times I have it and you know, And there's times I've really leaned in on the broker in that market for their expertise and just said, look, I'm gonna have you lead this. this is your market. I you know, I can't add value in a small market in North Carolina. so they were super they were again, once again they were great. They provided the service and they got the job done.

Craig Hagglund 15:22

It just depend I think it's it it's all situational. So I had one client we were doing a lot of work with across the country in various markets and but they became very close with for example my client my co-broker in Dallas, which was great because he's a Tom Walrich, great broker, super

Craig Hagglund 15:40

good

Craig Hagglund 15:41

super diverse. and so they th I was very comfortable with them having a relationship and communicating. in other Situations, it just I might need to interact more and just be more of a bridge. So it just depends on the situation and who's involved.

Craig Hagglund 15:57

You

Craig Hagglund 15:57

know,

Craig Hagglund 15:57

and also

Craig Hagglund 15:58

it's

Craig Hagglund 15:58

the client's, you know, what is the client's comfort level? are they okay just kind of having conversations?

Craig Hagglund 16:05

if I'm you know, do is it okay if direct conversations with a cobroker or your friend or your colleagues out of state or do they want to run it all through me? So really it's just what is their temperature?

Craig Hagglund 16:58

I mean

Craig Hagglund 16:59

one way works until it doesn't. You know, there's times you and

Craig Hagglund 17:02

sometimes you're just referring business. So

Craig Hagglund 17:05

and you know, if you sometimes you get burned and you find somebody who's not hustling and not finding the space and you learn. So So that's a big part of it. But these days, you know, a couple of these clients I was doing a lot of this work for, a couple of them have there's you know, have been acquired or are no longer around. So again, like anything in the business, it continues to evolve. And so but I was you know, fortunate to be able to kind of do work in the various markets and work with a lot of different lead brokers.

Craig Hagglund 17:48

you're

Craig Hagglund 17:48

my

Craig Hagglund 17:48

best

Craig Hagglund 17:48

client.

Craig Hagglund 17:49

You can't retire. You're you can't sell the business. You know, you've been we've been going strong for twenty some odd years. So, but again, I've been doing it a fair amount of time now. And so I've you know, you see mergers, companies go under, people retire, get fired, and so you see the whole gamut and so you just again you that great client from a couple years ago may not be there tomorrow, so you've gotta constantly you've got to be nimble and constantly be looking for other options.

Craig Hagglund 18:43

yeah, for sure. Cause a lot of people you may have done all these deals, but somebody a couple rungs below or above, they don't know who you are.

Craig Hagglund 19:16

Yeah, I also just I'm of the belief that again if I'm out of my market, I wanna have somebody who's you know has an a level of expertise, you know, so we have the right info and we're providing the best service to the client. So th I always thought there's nothing worse than you show up on a tour and you're out of your market and you're like and they're like, Who's that tenant or who's this or who's that? And you're like, I have no idea. I mean it that it's like a fearful thing I have. So I always wanna make sure Again, wherever market I just

Craig Hagglund 19:44

I've got the right broker to help out and assist. So we look good and they look good.

Craig Hagglund 19:58

Yeah, I'd say it's probably I'm probably a fifty-fifty mix these days. I'd say earlier on I was more doing more tenant rep. I'm doing a better mix of landlord work. You know, we sell a number of buildings too, so if I always kinda when I lick talk to the young brokers and I say, you know, think of imagine a square and you've broken it into four corners. You wanna be repping owners, repping tenants, repping buyers, and repping sellers. So you want to have a mix of some sales, whether it's owner user, you know, typically owner user stuff. those are great deals to do and then repping

Craig Hagglund 20:31

some landlords. So I so do a fair do a fair amount of landwork landlord work these days as well.

Craig Hagglund 20:46

So the area I again I'm doing work kind of I'd say you know the 880 classic 880 corridor. So I've listings through

Craig Hagglund 20:54

I'd

Craig Hagglund 20:55

say

Craig Hagglund 20:57

I don't.

Craig Hagglund 20:58

not that at least not that I'm gonna show you. but so we're doing I'm doing repping owners on sites basically Oakland down through San Jose. and it's a mix of some institutional stuff. We do some Prologis work. in a couple of different markets of you know Oakland, Hayward and Fremont. and then just a scattering of we just picked up a three and a half acre site for real term right by the Oakland airport for sale or for lease. and and then we do a lot of just, you know, mom and pop, you know, high net worth individuals, families who own buildings, or it could have been

Craig Hagglund 21:31

they had their business in the building and the kids now are own it or we do a lot of that kind of real estate as well and just advising, you know, I just call it high net worth individuals who own their buildings.

Craig Hagglund 21:45

so I I'd say it not just for me, but for the whole Oakland office, there's a mix of institutional work as well as, you know, high net worth real estate we're handling.

Craig Hagglund 22:44

Yeah, it's tough. I mean there's you know, what you probably got people listening to this probably realize in their various markets, you know, a lot of the larger firms you know, get handed a lot of that institutional work. And I'll use Prologis as the example because they're the you know, one I think they're the best in class and you know, they're great to work with. But so some of the stuff I work with there are deals that we've sold them. that's a lot of it. And then some of it is business that they we were fortunate enough they asked us to handle the leasing on. it

Craig Hagglund 23:16

wasn't yeah, so that those are great. and some of the ones we have now, you know, other guys in our office, like for example Chris Schofield in our office does a lot of work with BKM. he's Chris is super diligent and that he he's he has a great team. working on a lot of that multi-tenant pro product that BKM has been buying. So they've been buying a lot in the Bay Area. So they're handling a lot of that. So we haven't done a oh where we have not won a lot of that sort of business is through like the big pitch where we're coming in

Craig Hagglund 23:45

and doing the presentation. We've done them, but we haven't had a lot of success with that.

Craig Hagglund 23:51

and I kind of for probably

Craig Hagglund 23:53

for

Craig Hagglund 23:53

a while

Craig Hagglund 23:56

Yeah, it is that's tough business 'cause a lot of times it's a the they've already predetermined who they're gonna go to, but they have to go through the motions of interviewing brokers and you kind of you know, you go in 'cause you don't want you always want to fight for the business, but you you know, nobody I I've never been a big fan of doing it that way. So a lot of times if we can just have a conversation, hey, we realize you guys have been struggling on some of your on this one listing, you know, we'd love an opportunity to help you out with it.

Craig Hagglund 24:22

It's been on the market for over a year. You know, we'll we've got a great team that will put you know put some good energy on it. And so I don't know, I think there's always a good story for that. When some when you could show that you are accountable and you've got the hustle. I mean a good my whole career where we've won business or been you know fortunate to get business, it's because we're able to out hustle people.

Craig Hagglund 24:45

you know, we're not gonna be the smartest guy in the room. I'm never gonna claim that, but I could definitely still at this age out hustle a lot of people on deals.

Craig Hagglund 25:24

It's one of the Prologis people actually told me they said, Look, if you're doing bringing us deals, you're on our radar. So to the younger brokers out there, you know, bring them deals. rep tenants and bring 'em to their buildings and you know, take 'em to lunch and get on their radar. But if you're doing deals in their buildings, you're on their radar. so that's the bet that's the best way to start.

Craig Hagglund 26:37

So that's a great question. When you break it up between A, I call it new product, and in this kind of the eighties, nineties generation buildings, there's a big gap in rents. You know, we're seeing so in Fremont and in some of these markets, we're seeing rents in excess of two dollars a foot.

Craig Hagglund 26:54

we're you know

Craig Hagglund 26:56

old class A, new product, but also power. So the With advanced manufacturing and all these derivatives

Craig Hagglund 27:04

of AI.

Craig Hagglund 27:08

I

Craig Hagglund 27:08

didn't,

Craig Hagglund 27:08

but Yeah, so it's a term a lot of people use obviously up here and they're all over, but the point is so a lot of these deals are power related. So you guys are probably running into this, I think, in the your South Bay market more. But you know, buildings with you know four thousand amps of power, they're gonna get a two dollar rent versus an older an eighties generation twenty-two to twenty-four clear building and in Hayward, we're still seeing rents as low as you know a buck ten triple net. So there's a big that's a big gap. But the rent growth and what they're referring

Craig Hagglund 27:44

to is really a lot of the Silicon Valley growth. There's a couple companies, Quanta, MiTAC,

Craig Hagglund 27:51

just to name a few, SYNNEX, Hive that are doing some significant deals across the Hayward, Union City, Fremont, Newark, San Jose and Milpitas, and they're just gobbling up space. They're all AI infrastructure related. And

Craig Hagglund 28:05

so that's a big part of that the market right now are those kind of companies floating around and taking up big space. The traditional logistics kind of deals are so you know are, you know, they're not as robust these days. you know, they're happening, but they're not you know, at the pace that they were a few years ago. You know, call it you know, during the post COVID time.

Craig Hagglund 28:38

Yeah. And there's still a lot you know, the three PL concepts and delivery concepts out there taking up space, but they you know, it's a thin margin business, so they're looking for cheap deals and you know, but the Bay Area market again Prologis is putting up a number of buildings right now. you know, in Milpitas, Overton Moore's putting up a building in San Jose. Our quarterly report's about to go out. We have a page dedicated to new construction and a lot of it's in the area south of Union City. in the in front of the Silicon Valley marketplace.

Craig Hagglund 29:12

really we're not we're very land res land restrained. It's some existing buildings will get demoed. and so the demand is also in that market. So Fremont, if you look at our marketplace, Fremont, which is just south of Hayward, Fremont is probably the hottest market in the country right now with in terms of demand. all these companies you know they have the infrastructure for these buildings and so the the demand, all the companies I mentioned earlier, Quanta, MiTAC,

Craig Hagglund 29:41

they're focused in that market and just taking space in that area. preleasing buildings, again, heavy power buildings with modern amenities.

Craig Hagglund 30:22

Yeah, it's been pretty robust again. And it's pretty specific to the Fremont market. Some of these deals have gone south and north, but they're really focused on Hayward or excuse me, on Fremont.

Craig Hagglund 30:44

Yeah, I'd say

Craig Hagglund 30:45

it depends

Craig Hagglund 30:46

on

Craig Hagglund 30:49

Yeah, so again the discrepancy in rates, you know, the from the class A to the class B, if somebody's in an older bill so say let's say somebody signed a deal or twenty six, so at twenty twenty-one, twenty, you know, rates rights are getting pretty high. But so we've seen a two years ago we started seeing rates kind of drift down a little bit. We're starting to see them percolate up a as the market's tightening, that they're starting to percolate back up. So and then the class A rates are through the roof. so I'd say it depends on their building their and when they did their

Craig Hagglund 31:20

deal. So I'd say for the most part, most people are looking at some sort of rate increase.

Craig Hagglund 31:28

unless when they went into a class A building in 21 and were paying a huge rent, but most of them are looking at rent increases right now.

Craig Hagglund 32:12

I'd say all the above. So I there's a number of deals we've that I've invested in so in buildings.

Craig Hagglund 32:19

so involved in some of that. just in industrial buildings that is in our market. we did one as you know as a year ago was the last one we did. a couple of us in our office and then with some other people we just syndicated and bought a building.

Craig Hagglund 32:33

and then there's a I've got a buddy who's does a lot of multifamily stuff. So he's always been a conduit for some you know, just to diversify a little bit. and then just, you know, what other avenues, just traditional investment avenues I can do. again, but I for You know, I know you have an interest in that as well. So but for young brokers, you know, when you have the ability to put some money into deals and I think it's a great opportunity for people just long term. and just, you know, especially if it's in your marketplace and you see the value and you can you

Craig Hagglund 33:04

know the beauty of our business is if things ever went bad, you lose a tenant, you gotta, you know, refill it, it's in your market. This is what you do. So you just go out and hustle and find a new tenant. So it's

Craig Hagglund 33:18

Yeah, so as opposed to, you know so over the years I've we've I've involved in a number of different deals.

Craig Hagglund 33:52

Yeah, I like the idea of being diversified. I don't want to have everything in one deal. so I'd say the way I look at it now, you know, 35 years into this now,

Craig Hagglund 34:02

you know, originally you wanted you're eager to get invest in into deals and You might start with, you know, I think it just it always starts with I tell someone, buy your first house. Don't, you know, buy a house or a condo or a place where you're gonna live. That should be your first

Craig Hagglund 34:17

investment. And

Craig Hagglund 34:18

then from there, go into some de go into areas that you know and you have a level of expertise. I've done I I've not taken my own advice before and I've gotten burned.

Craig Hagglund 34:28

you know, and it just it you know, and whether we weren't focused on it or it wasn't it wasn't at the right area or the product type. I've got we've gotten burned on that before. So I would say you know you look back, focus, you know, in your marketplace, product type you know and are an expert in, and that's you know, just focus on that. and unless you have somebody you really trust and who's doing again, whether it's a multifamily or something else, and you have a level of trust, you know this guy will run it properly and you're you know, not take on too much

Craig Hagglund 35:01

debt, 'cause debt is the killer of everything.

Craig Hagglund 35:06

you know, so I would say just product time, you know, i those are that's kind of what I the way I would do it today. you know, looking back on everything.

Craig Hagglund 35:32

Well, the worst thing in the world is again, if you can have everything going against you, and I'll use this one deal in particular. it was so it was such a giant pain in the butt because we were it was as I mentioned, the wrong product type, the wrong market, plus we were in the great financial crisis. So it's like you're in the ultimate riptide swimming against it, and you're like you're

Craig Hagglund 35:55

just

Craig Hagglund 35:55

waiting

Craig Hagglund 35:56

for the time. you're getting tired, you're exhausted. And you're waiting for the tide to change and sometimes it just doesn't.

Craig Hagglund 36:10

Yeah. But it's also it's the time and energy you're you know, if you're running these things, the time and energy you're putting into 'em, it's like you'd be so much better off just focusing somewhere else, but you've gotta run you know, get out of the deal somehow. So but live

Craig Hagglund 36:27

and learn.

Craig Hagglund 37:06

We just had our in our sales meeting Wednesday, we did a lunch meeting and so we ended the meeting, you know, we'd normally just go around the table, everyone's talking about deals, their market, what's happening, you know, rumors and comps and all that. And then we had some of our I'd say our younger, you know, top younger guys talk about kind of what they're doing. We try and do this just almost like a best practices or just what they're doing with AI and how they're utilizing how it's making their What are they how are they utilizing it and how is it improving their day, their performance?

Craig Hagglund 37:38

you know, and what platform are they using and all that? So we're everyone's, you know, for the most part using it. and but everyone's doing it in a different way. So I use it but not It doesn't program my day. I don't have bots working for me. I'm just I'm having I use it to it kind of enhance really just for information. I've been finding a lot of information on ownership, contact information, enhancing tour packages, just you name it. Whereas some of the other people are really just going deep on it and you know I'm super impressed with you know, they're uploading databases. off of CoStar,

Craig Hagglund 38:17

off of the and just finding out all these lease expiration dates or ownership information and they're able to I mean it works their entire day. and it takes a it's saving them so much time and energy. it's really impressive. So and again I'm not the guy to talk to you about AI. I do use it, but not to the extent that some of the other guys in our office and I'm sure your office as well and probably you know, how are you utilizing? I'm curious.

Craig Hagglund 40:45

We found a couple clients, you know, of the non-institutional variety. So if we draft a lease, for example, on a property, they'll drop it into ChatGPT or Claude and say, you know, tell me where my risk is on this lease. And or,

Craig Hagglund 41:00

you know, how do I make this, tighten this more up? I want to make this more landlord, you know, more onerous.

Craig Hagglund 41:07

and they come back with comments. I'm like, wow, okay, now you're Now you're coming you gotta get now you gotta have an attorney go through this because you're really put you're pushing my you know, I'm not comfortable outlining this paragraph this way. You know, that's a lot of legalese that really you should have an attorney doing that. And

Craig Hagglund 41:25

I know a lot of us hustle our own leases, but it's they're really I've had this out on a couple of different deals or they're doing this through their you know, chat or whatever, and it's

Craig Hagglund 41:34

creating a new dilemma.

Craig Hagglund 42:11

Right, exactly. Yeah.

Craig Hagglund 42:17

Oh.

Craig Hagglund 42:22

Sure,

Craig Hagglund 42:22

there's a

Craig Hagglund 42:23

lot

Craig Hagglund 42:23

of eye

Craig Hagglund 42:23

rolling.

Craig Hagglund 42:26

So, you know, and it's probably again it's probably eliminating the tasks for a lot of attorneys, but

Craig Hagglund 42:33

again

Craig Hagglund 42:33

I

Craig Hagglund 42:39

Exactly.

Craig Hagglund 42:42

Super.

Craig Hagglund 42:49

Yeah, thanks, Justin. That was great. Those are some great questions. It's been great conversation. So thanks again and really appreciate it.